James C: 0:00

It's Friday, the 28th of April 2023. I'm James Cridland, the editor of Podnews back home in Brisbane.

Sam Sethi: 0:17

And I'm Sam Sethi, CEO of POD Fan. Still stuck just outside of London and desperate for a trip

James C: 0:23

In the chapters today, if the chapters work, which they may not. YouTube Music now has podcasts and podcasts in the app, presumably coming very soon. We'll explain what we mean by all of that Spotify financial results as well and the Podcast Survey 2023 released by Ofcom and also

Staffan Rosell: 0:40

My name

Sam Sethi: 0:40

back

Staffan Rosell: 0:40

is Staffan Rosell and I'm the CEO and co-founder of Pod X, and I'll be on later to talk about the future plans of Pod X Group.

Ami Thakkar: 0:49

I'm Ami Thakkar. I am so excited to talk about my podcast Tuckered Out with Ami Thakkar and The Podcast Academy.

James C: 0:57

They will this podcast is sponsored and hosted by Buzz Sprout. Last week, 4140 people started a podcast with Buzz about podcast hosting made easy with powerful tools and remarkable customer support. Now you can turn your listeners into supporters with buzz Browse subscriptions. Go on, give it a whirl with us at Weekly Dot Pod News dot net.

Sam Sethi: 1:23

Sir James. Let's kick this off. I don't know if it's an ongoing saga or it's just actually, you know, something useful. But YouTube claim now that they have finally got podcasts in to the YouTube music app. I'm getting bored of this. Tell me more

James C: 1:40

Yes And in fact it's not YouTube claiming YouTube have in there in their inimitable style not said anything about this but if you are in the US or you use a US VPN which is kind of handy, visit music dot YouTube dot com and you can see podcasts appear in there, you can search for podcasts, you can see recommended episodes, you can add podcasts to your library, all of that kind of stuff. And one of the interesting things is that the player changes if you're listening to a podcast. So it's got a step forward. 30 seconds, get back 10 seconds control, which doesn't happen with music for obvious reasons. So yeah, it's really interesting seeing it and just popping up in the web version. And what tends to happen, because I'm a YouTube music user, what tends to happen is that YouTube YouTube music on the website seems to follow or, you

Sam Sethi: 2:40

YouTube

James C: 2:40

know, seems

Sam Sethi: 2:41

music.

James C: 2:41

to be very close to the YouTube music app. So my guess is that we will see podcasts on the app very soon, but not quite yet. And this is James in the edit. I mean, of course, within 12 hours of recording the show, YouTube ended up adding it to the YouTube music app as well, which you'll see if you're in the US. So that's nice. Anyway, back to a former me. But yes, if you want to see what podcasts look like on YouTube, you can now have a play. If you've got a USB VPN with YouTube music.

Sam Sethi: 3:17

Hmm. I'm not sure I'll ever say Listen to your podcast on YouTube though. It's just the same as saying, Look, you can't call English sparkling wine champagne because it's not grown in champagne. I don't think you can call YouTube a podcast because it doesn't have RSS. Just my opinion.

James C: 3:35

Yeah, and I think, you know, there's something there's something to be said about that. I mean, they are saying in the chat that I had with somebody at YouTube stroke, Google was basically saying, if you are going to mention it, then talk about YouTube. Not talking about YouTube music because YouTube works everywhere and podcasts and YouTube music is us only for some reason still don't really understand why. Because it's a great experience, you know, on the app, so I'm sure it'll be fine. but as you say, podcasts don't really have anything to do with RSS on YouTube. I wonder whether that's a whether that's a dying conversation or whether the traditionalists among us are going to be, you know, moaning and groaning for many years to come.

Sam Sethi: 4:22

Hmm. I suspect it's the latter. Now, t U.K. managing director of YouTube, Alison Lomax, is set to speak at the podcast London Show. So maybe we can ask her. When we meet her, she's going to be talking on a panel with the guys from Listen, which is really exciting.

James C: 4:38

yes. So yes, that'll be really go to I think listen, are looking after one of the stages. They've got ten stages, 350 speakers. And I notice

Sam Sethi: 4:48

Wow.

James C: 4:48

going through the big list that are not there at all. So so there's clearly been a missed missed email, but that's fine by me. I'm perfectly happy not to be speaking on a stage. But anyway, we'll we'll find out what's going on there. But yes, looking forward to the podcast show in London in just a couple of weeks now, three or four weeks.

Sam Sethi: 5:10

Yeah. Now let's move on. Spotify, announce their Q1 financials for 2023. But before we get into them, James, let's round up, because obviously you were time travelling around Berlin.

James C: 5:22

MM.

Sam Sethi: 5:23

What was your overall view of, you know, the event over in Berlin then?

James C: 5:27

I have to say I was really impressed. So it was an event which clearly had a lot of money behind it. There's clear benefits to Spotify running the all year conference one day and then the old music summit the next day in the same venue, because obviously you've got benefits there in terms of using those particular spaces. But yeah, it was a really positive experience. Lots of different people there. I think they had four different, no, five different tracks that were going on. Lots of very excited people and very thrilled about podcasting and lots of people that weren't Spotify as well, you know, which was good. So I was on stage have Yeah, Pinol who is their global head of markets for talk content at Spotify, a man with a very fine beard and also one of the nicest people ever in the world. He was super good and we had a good chat about where the future of podcasting is. I think I may have typically made a name for myself by suggesting that Spotify shouldn't necessarily be aiming at being the the only place to download podcasts and instead be the best place to download podcasts. That got a round of applause from the audience.

Sam Sethi: 6:50

you know,

James C: 6:50

And I'm not necessarily sure that I am particularly well with the folks at Spotify, but it was a great it was a great event and and yeah, it was great to sit down and have chats with with Javier as well. So that was a good thing.

Sam Sethi: 7:06

Yeah. Yes. So Spotify believes that podcast advertising could be easier and more efficient as well. You did an interview, didn't you, with Nina Harvey,

James C: 7:15

Yes. Yes, I did. And she looks after the Spotify Audience Network and megaphone for much of Europe and yeah, I mean, she very much believes that scale is very important here in terms of podcasting. No one really is going to be trying to buy tons of different shows from tons of different places. So it's much easier just to buy audiences at scale through one particular buying point. And of course, the Spotify Audience Network would suggest it's them. I would imagine that Acast would suggest it's them too. So, you know, there we are. But yeah, she was great to to, to catch up with and it was a good interview with her for the podcast business Journal last week this week, Dan Granger is in the Interviewee chair So and that's a good interview as well. And hopefully by this time

Sam Sethi: 8:14

right

James C: 8:14

tomorrow you'll be able to read those interviews on the podcast Business Journal website as well, Podcast Business Journal dot com. Hopefully if I've done all of the tech stuff right,

Sam Sethi: 8:24

now, let's look at some of the financials then. So Spotify released their Q1 Financial Report podcast revenue grew by nearly 20%, which is pretty impressive. It was driven by original and exclusive podcasts where sold impressions grew strong double digits and CPMs increased into high single digits. Were you impressed by the Q1 results? James?

James C: 8:45

I mean I was certainly impressed by the fact that their podcast revenue is growing quite nicely. It's not, you know, I mean overall the company is still losing money and all of that. So, you know, although the subscribers figure is up as well. But I think seeing podcast revenue growing by 20% is pretty good. Also interesting, the numbers that Spotify didn't release, they didn't release a total amount of podcasts. They didn't release a figure that they used to release, which was how many of their overall muse are listening to podcasts, which they've not now released for quite some time. So interesting, you know, seeing that sort of side. But yeah, I think, you know, overall, if you ignore the fact that they're still not making any money, I think overall they're doing they're doing pretty well.

Sam Sethi: 9:41

Yeah, they made an operating loss of €156 million for the quarter, but they are still valued at $19 billion and they surpassed their 500 million monthly active listeners, which I think is pretty impressive to hear a number. Putting that in perspective, of course, Facebook still has 2 billion monthly active users and I'm surprised who they are, but they still do. So, you know, if you want to sort of scale it or measure it against somebody, that's quite good. The company also made 3 billion in revenue in Q1. So again, that's 14% up year on year from last year. So, again, I still think the numbers look like they're they're reducing the headcount, they're reducing the cost, They're trying to get to profitability and seem to be going in the right direction. James.

James C: 10:30

Yes, I think so. And, you know, I think it's all pretty good news in terms of you know, in terms of the Spotify numbers, the YouTube app, by the way, worldwide, if we're going to compare like with like the YouTube app has around 880 million Meiyu. So interestingly close, I think to where Spotify is at 515.

Sam Sethi: 10:55

Hmm. The other thing that was interesting was Daniel Ek's view. He said,

Daniel Ek: 10:59

think you're right in calling out the overpaying and over investing. I can start off by saying is we're not going to do that we're going to be very diligent in how we invest in future content deals and the ones that aren't performing, obviously we won't renew and the ones that are performing. We will obviously look at those on a case by case basis on the relative value.

Sam Sethi: 11:22

which I think is good. The big one for me, though, and I think you highlighted this in podcast daily is Joe Rogan shows up for renewal.

Daniel Ek: 11:31

because we are now the largest podcasting platform, that means we should be in a better position. Should we want to renew a deal

Sam Sethi: 11:40

Do you think he'll stay with Spotify?

James C: 11:42

Well, is the Joe Rogan show up for renewal? There's the interesting question. Now, if you read

Sam Sethi: 11:49

Oh,

James C: 11:50

all of the information from, for example, The New York Times then that quoted a three and a half year deal which started May 2020, Spotify contacted me and said, reaching out for a correction. Rogan's deal is not up in six months. So I thought, Oh, well, that's interesting. So I said, When does it run out? I'm happy to run that detail and the response that I've got. We've been correcting many folks,

Sam Sethi: 12:21

correct.

James C: 12:21

We won't be commenting on the terms right now, but definitely not ending this year. Thanks.

Sam Sethi: 12:26

No. Okay.

James C: 12:27

No.

Sam Sethi: 12:27

There

James C: 12:27

So

Sam Sethi: 12:28

you go.

James C: 12:29

not ending this year. by the way, not ending this year is a much better quote than Rogan's deal is not up in six months. Because if Rogan's deal was not up in six months, it might be up in three by be up in seven. But it turns out that, no, it's not ending this year at all. But yeah, so who knows what is going on there? They're clearly playing secret squirrel,

Sam Sethi: 12:53

yeah,

James C: 12:53

you know. Why not?

Sam Sethi: 12:54

well, I mean, I still stick with my prediction. I think Rogan won't get paid by Spotify and he'll return to YouTube. That is my prediction.

James C: 13:03

Yeah, it's not a bad prediction. And I think certainly reading between the lines, you know, Daniel EK was basically saying, look, we'll look very, very carefully about anything that we renew. And so, yeah, I think Joe Rogan may find it a little bit harder if, of course, his stuff is up for renewal. Now, they may have renewed it last year as part of the whole COVID stuff. Who knows? So, yeah, we'll we'll you know, at some point, presumably they're going to say something

Sam Sethi: 13:36

Hmm.

James C: 13:37

about that.

Sam Sethi: 13:37

Well, I think Joe Rogan might find he's got a big competitor coming to podcasting. Rumours are Tucker Carlson, who got fired by Fox News last week, and he's going to start a podcast.

James C: 13:48

Oh, great.

Sam Sethi: 13:50

Look, no. Not going to be on my roster of listening,

James C: 13:53

No.

Sam Sethi: 13:53

but he brings a massive audience with him for wherever he goes. And I think, you know, given he wants to lie and basically say whatever he likes without any rules, I think he'll get into podcasting very quickly with a big audience. I suspect he'll take a similar chunk of money to Rogan.

James C: 14:11

Yeah, well, you know, it'll be interesting seeing that. Although having said that, there have been quite a few ex news people who have started podcasts and most of those have sunk without trace. So,

Sam Sethi: 14:23

Hmm.

James C: 14:24

you know, let's wait and see what Tucker Carlson ends up doing, although I doubt that I'll be one of the one of the subscribers on that one. I can feel

Sam Sethi: 14:36

You know,

James C: 14:36

the

Sam Sethi: 14:36

indeed,

James C: 14:37

emails of complaints coming in as we speak. If you're going to if you're going to email those complaints, then please tweet them and make sure that you include weekly dot pod news, dot net in that tweet. That would be very kind of you. Thank

Sam Sethi: 14:50

kid.

James C: 14:50

you.

Sam Sethi: 14:51

Now, Ofcom, but

James C: 14:52

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 14:52

back here in the UK released some podcast later. James, what they said.

James C: 14:56

Yes. So they're the UK media regulator and a few Americans have said, what's the UK media regulator doing getting interested in podcasts? They feel a bit suspicious and I think it's absolutely fine. They're just keen to find out what's going on weirdly, though, our tax money, your tax money these days

Sam Sethi: 15:18

Yes. James

James C: 15:19

only goes to publishing the raw tables of data. So we actually had

Sam Sethi: 15:25

We didn't

James C: 15:25

to

Sam Sethi: 15:25

have enough money.

James C: 15:26

yeah, so we actually had to rely on somebody else to make some charts and that somebody else was Adam Bowie, who is an excellent radio veteran. Radio research veteran is, I believe we have to call him these days. Anyway, some really good figures. I mean, the headline figure is that the number of Brits listening to podcasts hasn't changed in the last 12 months, but it was relatively high anyway, so I'm not too concerned about that. The other thing, though, just to point out is that Spotify is the most popular platform in the country, at least by reach with BBC sounds, then YouTube, then Apple Podcasts

Sam Sethi: 16:08

MM.

James C: 16:09

in the top platforms. So Apple Podcasts, number four in that list, which I found interesting, what's going on in the UK, then you can imagine BBC sounds doing very well. But yeah, where would Apple Podcasts be if they had that Android app?

Sam Sethi: 16:25

Hoo hoo. Nudge, nudge.

James C: 16:28

Yeah, a little bit. A little bit higher. One would have

Sam Sethi: 16:30

Mm.

James C: 16:30

thought.

Sam Sethi: 16:30

There you go. Wouldn't if they're listening now. Moving up. Acast have released the weirdest survey. I don't get it right. So I'm going to ask you. So they say listeners to radio shows on podcast platforms are older, less well-educated, and significantly more male than listeners to native podcasts made for the medium. Right. This was research from Acast in France. James I don't get that at all. So please unpack it.

James C: 17:00

I think really it's a content conversation that actually if you're listening to reheated radio shows on a podcast so you know in much the same way as you can listen to any old BBC show or quite a few BBC shows that have been broadcast on the radio and then they're made available as a podcast. What a cast has found out is that the listeners to those shows are very much more old than the listeners to native podcasts, to podcasts made specifically for the medium. And I think that, well, all that's basically saying is that the content that the large radio broadcasters are making is more attractive to people who are, you know, older than in inverted commas, native podcasts, podcasts that aren't getting made to be broadcast on the on the radio. I did think that though that that was that was quite interesting and quite interesting information

Sam Sethi: 17:58

Hmm.

James C: 17:59

that actually overwhelmingly that probably points to Radio France being for older folk and that's probably fair. I think that that's probably where that particular broadcasters age, you know, age range is.

Sam Sethi: 18:16

Well, part of that report also, thankfully, Apple will be now happy again is that the Apple Podcasts? It's the number one app in France with Spotify in second place and Deezer in third.

James C: 18:27

Yes. And not only that, but number one app to listen to podcasts, but also in terms of total downloads per person. Then once more, it actually shows that Spotify isn't doing very well in terms of total downloads. Apple Podcasts has three times the amount of downloads per person than Spotify. So, you know, we've seen that data in the past in the US from Pod track. It's very, very similar. It does seem to show that people do use Spotify for podcasts, but they don't necessarily use Spotify much for podcasts. And so Spotify claiming that they're the number one podcast platform where they are by REACH, but they're certainly not by total downloads. And I think it's it's a story that needs to be told a little bit more. And it's interesting seeing this podcast data actually telling you that number one, by the way, is Podcast Addicts, which is actually a podcast put together by a Frenchman, and that has 6.4 downloads per user, which is really high in comparison to, you know, Spotify is 2.2.

Sam Sethi: 19:40

Acast is also added targeting by Nielsen audience segments on the company's self-service platform and they're targeting is now available in the US, Canada and Australia. Is this good? James?

James C: 19:52

I mean, it's it's good if you want to target certain people. This is information based on a listener's IP address and it's probably household information because that's all that these companies can actually get hold of. But what Nielsen do is they buy a lot of data from other people. They mash it all together with their own data from individual IP addresses, and they can work out whether or not somebody in that household is keen to buy a new car or raise, you know, a retirement age or whatever it is. Interestingly, ACAST have made targeting available in the US, Canada and Australia, but Nielsen audience segments are available throughout much of mainland Europe as well. Accounts just not making that available. Can you say GDPR?

Sam Sethi: 20:45

I think I can say who they are. Yes.

James C: 20:47

Yes. So that's that's interesting

Sam Sethi: 20:50

Hmm.

James C: 20:51

and and I think goes to show how lax the privacy rules are in the US, Canada and Australia in comparison to mainland Europe.

Sam Sethi: 21:02

Hmm. Well, not related to that at all, but we are excited that next week we've got Chris Kwami Roden, who's the principal engineer at cost. I've been looking forward to talking to him about what a cost doing with the Podcast Standards Project.

James C: 21:17

Oh yeah.

Sam Sethi: 21:17

So next week we'll be talking to him about what's across role that.

James C: 21:21

Excellent. Stick that in your diary for next Friday. T will be a good thing. Now I bumped into a man from podcast group while I was at the Spotify podcast Summit last week and wow, they, they are doing quite something, aren't they? Sam?

Sam Sethi: 21:38

Yeah, look, when they first appeared, I remember talking about it with you. He was like, Oh, okay, here's a group they're taking. 50% of companies are buying up a few people here and there. It seemed very underwhelming.But over a period of, well, let's say the last couple of years, they've acquired companies in Sweden and Finland, in the UK, and they've come further afield to Argentina. So they really are building up something quite interesting. So just like you were talking to Fredrik Overeem Berlin, one of the co-founders, I thought we should get Stefan, the CEO and also one of the founders, onto the show and ask him what is podcasts and what are they up to?

Staffan Rosell: 22:18

Well, I worked in media for the past 20 years, and I've been leading the operations for Viacom preceding Southland's Discovery and the last before I founded podcasts of our media here in the Nordic markets. So, so big group. Yeah. And during that time, the last five years, I was really driving the digital and the podcast agenda within Bauer internationally and their mission, the importance of radio companies embracing and developing the digital future. So, so that's sort of my background and my thinking behind products.

Sam Sethi: 22:59

Now, who are your co-founders in the business then?

Staffan Rosell: 23:02

It's Patrick Simmons who's been a TV man. You could say he's built audio, which is today a part of Banijay and nice entertainment for the Viaplay group and also a Fredrik side who comes from a cost and is really the one on most of us, the most sort of international podcast background. So so Patrick, he has built if you like, something like podcast in the TV world. And Fredrik has been an important part of the international expansion of cost. And I've been working with audio entertainment for most of my work life.

Sam Sethi: 23:38

So given what I said right at the beginning, that your goal is to help emerging podcast produce creators with finance as well as IP rights. What is your business model then? What is podcast model?

Staffan Rosell: 23:51

What we like to do is, is to build the world leading international podcast collective, if you like, a collective, a group of the best, including the best podcast creators in the world. We think that by bringing them together, they will become stronger, learn from each other, take each other's formats, international, and really because the background is really that we see that many of the podcast businesses are very small but very talented, but together they will become stronger. So the business model is really to invest in these companies and to become a majority shareholder. It's not because we want everyone to become the same. Everyone will keep their brands, their podcast, their culture, their language, their nationality. But if we can consolidate this in one group, we think that the sense of belonging to one group and that the what you say the will to actually help each other will be much stronger. So we become majority shareholders of the businesses that we invest in and the founders of those businesses become minority shareholders of products. So that's why we believe it's truly a collective. I mean, in a few years time podcast creators from all over the world will together own maybe half of podcast.

Sam Sethi: 25:13

In the web. One that I world I used to work for a company called CMG based out of Boston. I was a marketing director and we had a very similar model. We had AltaVista to Rome Now video. I mean, we had about 60 companies eventually within the portfolio and the synergy that those companies brought each other was what raised the value. I think CMG was raised to over$1,000,000,000. I guess what you're saying is the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It's the products family together will make a stronger proposition. And as you fund and finance it.

Staffan Rosell: 25:46

We're financed and funded by a company called Kobo, an investment company. So they are the majority shareholder now of products that provide the financing for the investments that we do. And we're not necessarily looking for an advertising network. We are very neutral when it comes to business models. I mean, we see that there is an advertising business model, there is a subscription business model that out there there are commissioners ordering and asking for content from podcast creators. There are branded podcasts, so there are multiple business models around podcasting at the moment. And we don't know and I don't think anyone knows which of those will grow the fastest and be most successful. I think that many of these models will exist in parallel and if you compare it with television and other medias. So it's very important for us to say that we like podcast companies that do great content and that have found a business model that works for them. And it's not necessarily the same business model as another company that we invest in. So that's how we think around that.

Sam Sethi: 26:56

So given that you've got quite a large portfolio now and quite a diverse portfolio, I mean you've got companies in Argentina now and recently acquired the one in Finland. How do you determine which one to go for next or, you know, do you just say write Italy's a market you want to be in, let's go find a player or you can find a company that just happens to be in another country. What's the criteria for acquiring the next company?

Staffan Rosell: 27:23

Very relevant question and something that we talk about a lot. But we have decided to limit ourselves to Europe primarily and Latin America and we believe for business purpose is very much in big languages that could reach many people, English being the most important one, but also Spanish and French. So we believe very much in the greater markets in Europe and Latin America with a lot of people and big languages. So that's sort of the frame. But within that frame we are looking for very creative and successful companies when it comes to content creation. Companies that want crisis, but also companies that have proven that they can make successful podcasts over and over again and generate revenue around those podcasts. So content is the core. That's the most important part. Management is very important, showing that you can actually do something with your content business wise. And then we also, like ever being content so that you actually can use your content over and over again. History is a perfect example. True crime documentaries where you can actually listen to something today and you can listen to the same thing in five or ten years with the same level of excitement. That's the type of content that we like. And then last but not least, we like companies that have the ambition to protect and keep as much as possible of their content in order to be able to do business with it's onwards and in the future. So that's the main criteria. So I would say.

Sam Sethi: 29:01

Given one of your fans has got a TV background, do you see taking these podcasts and putting these to TV and film, is that one of the routes to market?

Staffan Rosell: 29:11

It could be, but it's not one of the main roads. I mean, we say to all the companies that we meet that it's audio first, it's podcast first, and if you're successful and you have something fantastic that someone wants to make television or film out of, that's great. But that's a bonus. That's the icing on the cake. We are almost a little bit worried about podcast companies that think too much of the possibility that everything will become television and film because that's not going to happen. That will be, I think, the exception rather than the rule. So when it comes to format development and how to make business out of your IP, we much more believe in that. The great podcast in Finland could be translated to French and English and Spanish and be successful as a podcast in other territories.

Sam Sethi: 29:59

Right? So Portimao, based out of Denmark, has a very similar model here, although they acquire it to go into the Portimao app and then they look at translating that into multiple other different languages and countries, and they've stayed out very much until recently. The UK market. But what is it with Sweden? You put Spotify, you've got Acast, you've got Portimao, we've got podcasts. I mean, what's going on in the water over there?

Staffan Rosell: 30:28

It's probably not for me to ask because it's a much bigger question. But you're right that, you know, starting maybe with Spotify and even earlier, there is a business called Sky. Yeah, absolutely. There is a business culture here around technology that is it's just here. And it's like I said, I'm humble enough to realise that I'm not the person to explain that because it's a much bigger topic, but it's here. And yeah, I guess you have to have a certain financial resources to be successful in building businesses and maybe especially global businesses within technology. And you know, this part of the world is lucky enough to have a high GDP and good schools and all the rest of it. So social welfare and what have you. But it's yeah, it's interesting that many companies come from here. But back to your first question that we do not at all see Portimao as competitors. We rather see them as business partners because they are commissioning content from several of our companies. So they are really clients. They are coming to our companies and asking for content. We see them more as a platform and a distribution partner for the content that our businesses create.

Sam Sethi: 31:43

So did I miss something in the story of podcasts? Did you do a funding round? Because obviously putting may raise 75 million, which has allowed them to go and do what they're doing. You've obviously got backers, but you know, is the back a V.S. or a private equity? I mean, how much more can you invest, you know, going forward?

Staffan Rosell: 32:07

We don't know exactly how much more we can invest, but the company callable that funds us has a great backing. It's not private equity, but the money comes from private equity originally and now it's a private office. And if they like what we're doing, they could invest a lot more. So. So we're not going for any external rounds trying to find money elsewhere. We have the financial backing that we need.

Sam Sethi: 32:32

So fast forward six months from now. I mean, more acquisitions in the pipeline.

Staffan Rosell: 32:36

Yeah, absolutely. I think we will probably do 2 to 4 more acquisitions within that period. And the but we're also now going into a very interesting phase and this is really where the work begins that we want to deliver the advantages of being a products company to the companies that we have invested in the last six months. So we're now working hard with the business development, content creation, exchanging ideas, exchanging formats, working with IP and the legal side of things in order to not give everything away to the commissioners. So now it's really when the fun and the real work starts, when we actually have six companies in the group.

Sam Sethi: 33:17

So what's the exit strategy for products, if there is one yet?

Staffan Rosell: 33:21

Yeah, I like to say and to think that you should not think too much about the exit strategy, you should think about building a fantastic business because if you have a fantastic business, you can keep it and live from the dividends, You can put it on the stock market or you can sell it. So the core of any business, this exit strategy should be to build a fantastic business, and that's what we're trying to do.

Sam Sethi: 33:46

I only mention it because Spotify and ICOs are both floated on markets right now, and I just wanted to talk to natural evolution for you guys.

Staffan Rosell: 33:53

It could be, but it could be keeping it or it could be selling it as a whole. Or it could be the stock market, definitely. But we are really at a very early stage. We have just bought the first six businesses in the last six months and we want to build a group to become bigger and more profitable and a leader when it comes to content development and IP creation and development of business around IP in the world for podcasters. And we are not there yet, so we have some more work to do.

Sam Sethi: 34:25

Stefan, thank you so much. Now before you go, where can content creators and companies go to find out more about podcasts?

Staffan Rosell: 34:34

We have a web page and they could email me or call me or I'm sure they could find us, but the web page is a good start. Podcast Group dot com.

Sam Sethi: 34:43

Stefan, thank you so much for your time. Exciting times for products and I look forward to meeting Fredrik in London and.

Staffan Rosell: 34:48

Thank you so much for talking to us and it's been great to talk to you again.

James C: 34:52

Stefan and Russell from Pod X, Really fascinating company and looking forward to learn a little bit more about that in the future.

Sam Sethi: 35:02

Now, here's an interesting one for you, James. Do you ever listen to Pod Save America from Crooked Media?

James C: 35:08

I don't, but only because I find American politics deeply dull, so I don't bother listening. But you know, I'd be quite interesting if there was a UK version.

Sam Sethi: 35:20

Well, hold your horses then, bec the first episode

James C: 35:22

Hmm.

Sam Sethi: 35:23

of Pod save the UK from Crooked Media is set to arrive on May the fourth. Now, I think with the rest is politics and the newsagent over here in the UK, which are the two leading shows, I mean not just across politics and news, but they also happen to be very high as well across all categories. It's interesting to see that pod save the UK coming out to do something similar or at least to try and challenge them. That'll be an interesting download.

James C: 36:00

Yeah. Now I think it will

Sam Sethi: 36:02

Yeah.

James C: 36:02

be Nish Kumar and Coco Khan will be doing that particular show. In fact, I was talking to somebody that's been working on that show at the radio days, Europe, and they were working out whether or not they should be calling it Pod Save the UK or Pod Save the Queen.

Sam Sethi: 36:21

Oh, very good.

James C: 36:22

Pod. Save the Queen of course, is very good, except

Sam Sethi: 36:25

It's a king.

James C: 36:25

she went and died.

Sam Sethi: 36:26

Yeah,

James C: 36:27

So that's probably no. And pod save the K? No, no, nobody's interested in any of that. But still. But there we go. Executive producer is Louise Cotton Reduced Listening is an interesting company. I've not heard too much about them, but they are jobI Waldman is the managing director of the company and lots of other folk working there. It's a big old company, lots of ex-bbc people, as you might expect in there. But yeah, really interesting set of folk and yeah, I'm quite excited about this new show. So yeah, it should be good.

Sam Sethi: 37:07

yeah. Nishiyama is very good actually. He's a very good comedian and someone I happen to know. So we'll try and get him on the show.

James C: 37:13

Oh somebody you happen to know isn't it always the way if you can't wait By the way you should also go and have a listen to the Bugle which is an excellent satirical podcast which is from the UK, but also includes people in Australia, in India and in the US as well, and I would heartily recommend it. Let's go

Sam Sethi: 37:34

Yeah.

James C: 37:34

round the world, shall we?

Sam Sethi: 37:36

James, you've been organising more reviews. This one is a podcast review of podcasts in Indonesia. Tell me more.

James C: 37:44

Yeah, you're right. This is another article from Gwang Genio, who has written a bunch of articles for pod news about podcasting in East and Southeast Asia. And this time Indonesia, who has, you know, loads and loads and loads of people who live there and everything else is really interesting. Again, looking into Indonesia, looking into what works and what doesn't and what some of the barriers are and there's quite a few barriers in Indonesia and some of those barriers are the law. You can, if you're not careful, you can be thrown into jail for defamation and slander if you're not careful even on podcasts as well. There are laws around to LGB t q plus issues as well, which which make conversations around that a little bit difficult. So you know, quite a lot of stuff going on there, but edutainment works pretty well in that particular in that particular country. Audio books aren't booming yet in that country, so maybe there's an opportunity there. But the format choice basically, you know, politics, global history, general science, all of those sorts of things probably work really well. But yeah, there's a lot of education going on in that particular area. You can find out more in pod news. We published it yesterday. Pod news dot net will find that

Sam Sethi: 39:22

I'm guessing, therefore, Tucker Carlson won't be going to Indonesia. Interesting.

James C: 39:28

I wouldn't have thought

Sam Sethi: 39:29

No,

James C: 39:29

so.

Sam Sethi: 39:29

no, no. Disney is in enough trouble already. Now, you've also been talking about this thing called the mono sound capsule. What is in the mono sound capsule, James

James C: 39:41

Yes, well, exactly. And indeed, is it even pronounced Nemo? No, I think it's pronounced no minnow. Uh, a bit

Sam Sethi: 39:50

thing?

James C: 39:50

like the

Sam Sethi: 39:50

No,

James C: 39:50

Muppets.

Sam Sethi: 39:50

you can't say that. Yes, exactly.

James C: 39:52

No.

Sam Sethi: 39:52

I

James C: 39:53

Minnow.

Sam Sethi: 39:53

had that

James C: 39:53

Doo

Sam Sethi: 39:53

straight

James C: 39:53

doo

Sam Sethi: 39:54

ahead.

James C: 39:54

doo doo doo. James from the eighties again, it turns out it's pronounced this way. Anyway, Yes, it's. It's. Wow. It's. It's an incredible thing. So I have one full review. They're not going to let me keep it for fairly obvious reasons, because it's$2,500.

Sam Sethi: 40:16

Wow.

James C: 40:17

That's

Sam Sethi: 40:17

Okay.

James C: 40:17

why they're not going to let me keep it. It's a beautifully made thing and it would be perfect for us.

Sam Sethi: 40:25

So

James C: 40:25

So when we are at conferences, for example, and we want to record, then literally it's this big, it's this big round sort of teapot looking thing, you open it up and it's got four little wireless microphones that all record on the microphone and then it's got a thing in the middle which takes amber sonic noise to help with noise reduction and all of that kind of stuff. It's a beautiful device. Absolutely not great value. I don't think if you are not going to be using this sort of thing every day or indeed every week. But I think, you know, in my review, which the company is just having a fact check on, so who knows quite how my review is going to come back. But anyway, in my review, I'm basically saying this would be a perfect tool for a busy production house, be a perfect tool for somebody like Global, for the BBC, for power, for, you know, NPR, because it probably replaces a studio booking, probably replaces a on the spot sound engineer to sit there and watch your levels and all of that. You don't need any of that. You just basically unpack it, you know, stick the microphones on. Yeah. And then hit the hit the red button to start recording. So really nice, really simple tool, but it is. Yes, $2,500 plus a monthly subscription for the cloud recording tool. So it's not a cheap device.

Sam Sethi: 41:59

I'll sit with my one. It goes Thank you very much

James C: 42:02

Yes,

Sam Sethi: 42:02

for a lot, lot less.

James C: 42:03

I think that's probably right.

Sam Sethi: 42:05

Now in Ireland, a podcast in Ireland made 190,000 a euro profit last year. Companies called Lightning Seeds Ltd is owned by the Irish broadcaster Loretta Blewitt, who happens just to be the cousin of US President Joe Biden. James,

James C: 42:21

Yes, apparently so. Loretta Blue it is. I discover

Sam Sethi: 42:26

that's how

James C: 42:27

how

Sam Sethi: 42:27

you say

James C: 42:27

you

Sam Sethi: 42:27

it.

James C: 42:27

pronounce her name because, you know, Ireland. And so she

Sam Sethi: 42:31

Oh,

James C: 42:31

is one of the hosts of Tommy, Hector and Loretta, which was a winner last year in the Irish Podcast Awards. This year, last year. And yeah, it's it's currently on a hiatus at the moment, but comes back later on in the year. Interestingly, they use advertised they use acast plus's subscription tool and they sell merch as well and

Sam Sethi: 42:55

and

James C: 42:56

she is one of three and there's another person who is part of it as well. Hang on,

Sam Sethi: 43:04

I took his name out because I couldn't pronounce it.

James C: 43:07

Hector Oh, Holahan is another one of the hosts and he has ended up earning quite a lot of money from it as well in his own company, low profile. So yeah, he seems to be doing incredibly well and it's another Acast story because that seems to be where they're getting most of their cash. There. So yeah, I've, I've thought that that was a very interesting read. Of course you know they are not the same as, you know, many other podcasters who aren't quite earning that amount of money. But great to see that it's possible.

Sam Sethi: 43:43

Hmm. Now, jobs, James. Tell me more

James C: 43:47

Jobs. Oh, yes, there's plenty of jobs going on and plenty of changes to Myra Shama has been hired as story editor, Amir Akuma as series producer and Dinesh Kumar as development producer at Vespucci as part of their new podcast Commissioning funds. There's lots of stuff coming out of Vespucci. Elle Fanning is making a show, Love Plus radio is making a show. All kinds of stuff going on there and some more hires as well. Tom Dark, who used to be head of TV promotions and podcasting at Warner Records, has jacked it all in and started his own company. It's called Dark Side Media, and it's a music promotion, podcast production and talent management company. He'll be busy. And Arielle SHAPIRO is well, she's probably probably packing up and, you know, and moving out as we speak. She's the writer of Hot Pot and she's also very pregnant. So Amrita Khalid is looking after hot pot in the meantime. And I wish them well. And although not not that well, obviously, if you're looking for a job, though, Pod news has podcasting jobs across the industry and across the world and they're free to post. It'll just take 2 minutes to add a new role. POD news, dot net slash jobs. Yes, it's the stuff you'll find every Monday in the Pod news newsletter. Here's where we do all of the tech talk. And I've been playing around with Hindenburg pro, too, which is getting even better.

Sam Sethi: 45:25

Yeah. Now tell me more. Because we had a back and forth conversation about SRT files, James, and it seems that they're fixed in Hindenburg.

James C: 45:32

Yeah.

Sam Sethi: 45:33

Protein.

James C: 45:34

Yes. I've really liked the way that I can. I can give feedback to Hindenburg Pro, too, and say, Yeah, if you just tweet it like this, then it would work so much better. And so, yes, you can now add speaker names to the podcasting 2.0 standard in your SRT files when you're producing a transcript, which is really good. If you want to end up using that, you just right click somewhere on the manuscript and choose export. Also, another thing that I've managed to get Hindenburg to do and to fix in Hindenburg Probe to is chapters. You can now export chapters including the 000 chapter that you need for Spotify and for YouTube.

Sam Sethi: 46:22

People.

James C: 46:23

It will automatically add that for you, as you as you copy those those chapters out, which is really helpful. So But that will be certainly very useful if you're wanting to dump your chapters into YouTube and into Spotify. Do you remember when I was talking about doing exactly that a couple of weeks ago?

Sam Sethi: 46:41

Mm

James C: 46:41

And

Sam Sethi: 46:41

hmm.

James C: 46:42

yeah, and basically gaming the system so that chapters are now available in YouTube and in Spotify. Well, I've got 90% of the way

Sam Sethi: 46:51

90%

James C: 46:51

there. Now. I've got

Sam Sethi: 46:52

of

James C: 46:52

a little script that works out where my chapters are and gives me that file and I've got another little script which theoretically should upload it to the POD news website so that it appears in the correct RSS file. Just for those two apps. This just one technical issue that I have to work through before that actually works properly. But yeah, so I've managed to do that. So Bug Sprout will hate me as well as everybody else. Who said no, James, it's a bad idea.

Sam Sethi: 47:22

it. Well, hey, you had to do something on a long flight back from Berlin, so at least. At least we don't know what you did.

James C: 47:28

Yeah, indeed.

Sam Sethi: 47:29

Now, what? First friends of the show have added speaker names to transcripts as well in this Web player. So you can now see. Well, if you look at our podcast, for example, you can now see your ah, my name there as well. That's very good. Well done,

James C: 47:43

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 47:43

Mitch.

James C: 47:43

Which is good. And pod fans is also displaying speaker names, you know, a thing or two about pod fans.

Sam Sethi: 47:49

Oh yeah. Them. Oh yeah. Now I might tell you about it one day. Who knows

James C: 47:54

Yeah. So that's said. So that's very good. And I think, you know more and more people supporting supporting transcripts is a good thing. There' a new version of Pod Friends coming up soon as well that will support

Sam Sethi: 48:08

what

James C: 48:09

the pod

Sam Sethi: 48:09

a

James C: 48:09

follow

Sam Sethi: 48:09

future

James C: 48:09

feature. Assuming that the pod follow feature doesn't get changed by moaning minis that just want to change it all. But that will be very nice as well to talk to me about the value times split tag.

Sam Sethi: 48:23

do I have to? I did look at it. I did look at it. Oh, my God. You know, we were talking about potholes. Keep it simple, stupid.

James C: 48:33

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 48:33

Well, yeah. Here we go. Podcast value time, split time. So I love Alex Case, but he's been adding loads of different fields to the value tag so they can put them in chapters. I think it comes from Adam's desire to have the ability to split it for when you have music track within a podcast so that you can pay

James C: 48:54

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 48:54

somebody.

James C: 48:54

I think that's exactly it.

Sam Sethi: 48:56

I would just point out your fellow Australians, Mr. Edward de Bono, who has my favourite phrase, complexity is fail simplicity. This is very complex and I'm not sure that we I'll put my pop hat back on yet. I'm going to be able to

James C: 49:13

Mm.

Sam Sethi: 49:13

implement it. It's very, very complex

James C: 49:16

Yes. And I should just point out that pod follow is being supported by more apps out there than they cross out comments, which I think just goes

Sam Sethi: 49:27

already.

James C: 49:27

to show already and it's not even been approved yet. So yeah, so that's a thing. Yeah, it's it's a bit of a frustration, you know, bunches of new tags appearing. Nathan Gay Right. Nathan Garth Right. Garth Right. Garth Right. Garth Right. It's like bath or bath,

Sam Sethi: 49:48

Yes, depending where

James C: 49:49

yes.

Sam Sethi: 49:49

you are in England. Yes.

James C: 49:50

Nathan Garth Right. Let's go with that. Has written a blog post talking about update frequency. And he's actually done a new proposal on GitHub, which is a way of telling podcast directories when you update. So I'll weekly show you a daily show. You a daily show, but only during the week. You know, all of that kind of stuff. I looked at it and I thought, actually there's some really good there's some really good work that's gone into that. So you'll find that the POD news RSS feed already supports that because that's quite nice. But yeah, it's it's still probably going to be a little bit complicated for many people. But you know, it's nice to see.

Sam Sethi: 50:35

Well, considering only 14% of all shows on Apple Podcasts use the update frequency. So adding extra fails to this I'm not sure is going to actually make more people use it.

James C: 50:45

Yes. Well, yes, that may be that may be one of the problems. But I mean, it's certainly and it's a nice it's a nice idea. And let's see if if it goes anywhere, there's a there's a proposal on the GitHub right

Sam Sethi: 51:01

Mm

James C: 51:01

now.

Sam Sethi: 51:01

hmm.

James C: 51:02

There was a nice chat room for the podcasting 2.0 podcast last week. And weirdly, I was able to listen live to it, which was exciting. So I was actually able to play around with the chat room as it happens, normally that's at about 4:00 in the morning for me, but I was in Berlin and so therefore I could actually have a listen and it was rather good.

Sam Sethi: 51:21

Now moving on. Pod Scribe has launched a new content analysis tool powered by. Here we go, Chad, Djibouti.

James C: 51:28

Yes. What they're basically saying is that transcripts are all very well, but transcripts don't necessarily understand sarcasm. They don't understand the context that something is in. And so this is using chat GPT to better understand the context of particular words that are used. It uses the existing GAM framework, which is the standard that the IAB set and looks pretty good. I would say that because they're sponsoring the Pod News Daily newsletter right now, of course, just as a disclosure, but you can join the waitlist if you'd like to give it a go. It's pod scribe dot com slash blog and you'll find out more details there. But yeah, always interesting seeing what that company are doing. Only a couple of weeks ago they also achieved IAB certification, which as they point out, they are the only company with IAB certification that isn't actually selling their own media. So, you know, always, always worthwhile bearing bearing that in mind too, certainly from a analysis point of view.

Sam Sethi: 52:42

Hmm. Now, a quick little bit of insults are floating around. Oscar announced that there's a big fountain update coming next week, So I pinged Oscar, and he'll be on the show next week to tell us all about

James C: 52:55

Excellent.

Sam Sethi: 52:55

it.

James C: 52:55

Well, I look forward to hearing more about what some of those updates are. I might know one of them, so that's all very good.

Sam Sethi: 53:03

There is also a new Nostre music player out there, friend of the show, Maurice Kaminski, one of the founders of Holby, tipped me and said, check this one out. It's called Zap Dot Live. I had a look at it. It's pretty basic. Yes, it does use not to comments, but then it won't. My new music plan, that's for certain.

James C: 53:24

Yes. Yes. If you're a fan of Telegram using Telegram instead of a website when you should really be using a website, then a scribbler is probably for you. It's a free podcast. Summariser Scribbler Dot. So why is that anyway? It's a free podcast. Summariser. It works through Telegram, if you like, that sort of thing. OSHA has added AI to its platform as well, so you now get it to produce social media posts and stuff like that through AI. So that's all very good. very interesting company. They seem to be on fire right now,

Sam Sethi: 54:06

I just thought I'd reach out to Maxim, who is the CEO of Misha, and get him on the show. So again, we never know. He might be on next week's show as well, but if not, it'll be the week after

James C: 54:17

Uh huh, very good. Yes. That well, that. Well, that would be a good a good thing to have. Listen to I mentioned Scribbler Dot. So do you know where ISO is?

Sam Sethi: 54:27

Soweto.

James C: 54:28

Somalia.

Sam Sethi: 54:29

Oh,

James C: 54:30

Somalia.

Sam Sethi: 54:31

only

James C: 54:31

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 54:31

a thousand miles out.

James C: 54:32

Yes. Why would you. Why would you have a so anyway, best of luck, scribbler. Let's have a look at some upcoming events then, shall we?

Sam Sethi: 54:42

Hmm. So the would be 27th annual awards were

James C: 54:47

Oh

Sam Sethi: 54:47

announced?

James C: 54:47

yes,

Sam Sethi: 54:47

Yes, the

James C: 54:48

yes,

Sam Sethi: 54:48

winners

James C: 54:48

yes.

Sam Sethi: 54:48

were announced. Smartless won the A Webby podcast of the year. It was some really interesting winners in that section, James. Just remind me, because you've mentioned it before, do you have a Webby?

James C: 55:00

No, I don't have a webby.

Sam Sethi: 55:02

Oh,

James C: 55:02

I've got to. Yes, yes, absolutely.

Sam Sethi: 55:09

well, don't you?

James C: 55:10

So yeah, the Web is one of the, you know, longest running awards which are going on, of course, lots of other awards going on to the areas in the UK, which is the audio and radio awards. They have an awful lot of podcast awards going on there as well. They used to be called the Sony Radio Awards back in the day when I went, I saw Dame Edna

Sam Sethi: 55:39

Oh.

James C: 55:39

once, God rest her soul, um, one of those. So that was a good thing. And yeah, and talking about awards, obviously there's the Emmys as well, which are back next year.

Sam Sethi: 55:56

Hmm.

James C: 55:57

You had a quick chat about the Podcast Academy, the company that runs the, the Emmy Awards. Didn't you?

Sam Sethi: 56:05

Yeah. I'm Amy Tucker, who runs Tuck It Out is also a board member. We met over in Vegas. Lovely lady. And I thought, why not ask her what's going on with the podcast academy? Because I had a few questions.

Ami Thakkar: 56:20

So let me I'm going to give you the best definition that I think explains it all. It is the only professional, full membership organization that unites podcast creators with industry leaders. Think of it as podcast movement. All year round, where everyone from the industry comes together, is able to network. You know, independent creators like me can meet big network heads besides the networking, the educational portion of it, the programming part of it. And so I like to think if you want to do like a little similarity podcast movement online all year, of course we're starting to have more live events through the Academy. Tons of stuff happening this year. It's all about inclusivity and we are really cognizant of having diverse leadership, not just with independents and industry leaders, but with female male, all backgrounds. And I think the two pillars are to encourage creativity and award excellence. So uplifting the industry. Okay, Now one of my observations at the Vegas event where we had the Olympics was it was very American now. So I jokingly called it the American Podcast Awards really, because there was no European or British or Australian representation. Right. And that felt for something that was meant to be an industry overarching academy. It felt very myopic. It was like the World Series of baseball, right? The Americans have it. Yeah. No, the rest of it is the World Series. I'm kidding. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what we were joking about. That would be one thing I'd love for the Academy this year to try and reach out to more international participants to come on board. If you were selling the academy, why would I join, you know, from based over here in Europe? Yeah, no, it's a great question. And you're right, I think we are still somewhat new. This is only the second year doing the MBA. So I think it is US centric a little bit more just because it's an easier way to start as a new organization to figure out the kinks how to grow this bigger. And of course, we want it to be international and of course we want to include everyone globally. Now that being said, we do have two members of the board that are based outside the U.S., one in London, I believe her name is Christina moore. Check me on that. And then Jfrog. The CI is based in Dubai and we are actually partnering with Sonora to go to Mexico City in June to talk about more of the global landscape and meet more global creators and industry leaders. So it's getting there. I just think honestly, the simple answer is it was the easiest way to start, I think, because we are so new and now that we are understanding what we're capable of and the interest globally now it is definitely 100%. But what we want to focus on as well. Okay. Now Rob Greenly does a weekly podcast with Todd Cochrane. And they were talking about an outreach program really of education. I was like, Really? So again, tell me more about some of the other activities apart from the Olympics, which is very glamorous and it's a once a year of right throughout the rest of the year. What does the Academy focus on? So we have this great mentor mentorship program where we ask mentors to sign up, and if you want a mentor, we pair you up with someone who was a professional who has been doing this for a while, someone that we think would be a good match for you. I've done it. I've done it. I've done it as a mentor and a mentee. I was matched up with Louie, who was one of the heads of Wondery, and I got to talk to Marshall Lewy once a month for like six months, just me and him as a little independent podcaster. So I can talk to Jen Sargeant now. Yeah, she's on the board, by the way. No, exactly. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So I mean, like the access to the people who, you know, are frankly hard to get hold of because they are busy, they are running things. And so the mentor program I think is fantastic and very unique. And we have so many amazing names on there ready to help and give back. We also have masterclasses which will be now called TPA Presents, where we have masters in various areas of the industry speaking to our members about different aspects, whether it's marketing, audience growth, whatever it is, we have it all, every category is covered. And also, again, it's easy to reach out to these people and ask the questions and connect. So a lot of this is just being able to connect and talk to people that may be not easy to get hold of and get the advice. And I do think the peer to peer connection is super important as well. We already talked about how in lonely podcasting can be, I join the TPA just to like meet other podcast people. I didn't expect anything out of it, but just to like talk to other people that are. I'm like, What the hell are we doing? What's happening here? So for me, I initially started it off just to make friends and feel like I had an office of some sort. I didn't expect to talk to Marshall Louie and like get all this great advice. It was an amazing, amazing thing that happened. And I was like, Wow, TPA is really legit. We are also going to be coming out in August, going to have our own podcast where podcast industry people will be interviewing other podcast, interesting people and you can sign up to be on it. It helps with your own marketing and you get to meet others. And so we want podcasters to have that access. So we're starting on new programs as well. Obviously the ambos are there, other great, but we're thinking about other exciting things. The other thing to remember is that we are partnering with a lot of other platforms like the Black Pod Collective, Bipoc podcast creator, Air State of Women. So we're working with everyone because we want to be team players. Yeah, What was interesting as an observation for me at the Emmys was these amazing creators and producers were winning awards, and yet in my podcast world, not one of those people existed. Okay, because it's a very interesting separation between the two parties. I deal in a world where we're looking at people. Adam Curry in the podcasting 2.0 world and technologies and what's moving the process needle forward. So micropayments and new ways of monetizing your podcast. And then on this other side you've got these amazing production companies building and spending. I wonder whether the Emmys would have space for extending the awards. This just may, maybe some feedback to some of the platform players. There's a great platform called Fountain, which is innovative, right? Right. There's some great hosts out there doing amazing work, and there's no recognition for them by the podcast Academy. Right. And it felt like it was like if you've produced this amazing podcast that has a big high end budget and yes, I know independents were covered as well, then we will celebrate, right? But the people that they rely on are the nuts and bolts people who build the railways and give you the pickaxes and whatever so you can go and dig the gold. But these guys are building those railways and selling you the pickaxes. Right. But they're not getting any notes. Sure. I'm glad you buy that. I mean, I think that's true. So I think a few things with that. I think that's why on the board of governors, that's why there's so many of us that are coming from different angles, aspects, places, roles to talk about these kind of things, because it can't just be all industry leaders on the board. So that's why they brought in someone like me who is an independent, who has literally just learned about the podcast industry in the past 20 months. And I also do think again, the ambiance we just finished our second year, it is new and so I think we're always looking to see how to get better, how to be more inclusive, what we need to do to change. So I do think the feedback is definitely something we need to hear and what we're talking about, like what we can do better next year, who can we include? How do these independent platforms feel? What are we missing? I think it's ever evolving still as a new organization. And so, yeah, I agree we need to make it happen. So I think that's why I love our board is because it is so diverse. And I will tell you, Sam, when I was voted on last year, I was nervous. I was like, No one's going to listen to me. Like, who am I? I felt empowered. It feels like everyone's on the same level playing field. It's really nice. Yeah. Again, but I know there's a lot of work being done around education as well. City University here in the UK have started an M.A. in podcasting, which I think is great. Is there again any thread or theme within the podcast academy to do more grassroots education work? Yeah, I think so. I think for now we are definitely kind of filtering and understanding what we have done so far to make sure that is working before we start expanding it more. Right? And so in terms of grassroots is definitely on the agenda. I don't know. There's been nothing specific talked about yet, so I think, sure, why not? Right. We're not this old organization that's stuck in our ways. I think we're an organization that's still ever evolving. That's why it's really cool to be part of it right now. We can actually make a change and that we can actually form ideas that maybe we missed or maybe that are needed, like podcasting. Still, the wild, Wild West still is ever evolving. And so I think we are too. We're always willing to grow. I don't think there's ever like a, Oh God, no. It's always like, okay, let's see how we can make this work cool. So if I wanted to join, where would I go? The podcast Academy dot com I believe that's a no. It's okay. I'm just checking. I'm pretty sure that's it. Yeah. So membership, you can sign up there. Look, Sam, there is always like discounts on memberships, so make sure you look out for that. I think it's 100 a year, but we always have some sort of deal or discount. Cool. Yeah. And if have me moments ago and listen to your podcast, whenever they go anywhere, they listen to podcast. The website is tuckered out with Omnicom, obviously on all the major platforms. I do have a newsletter on Substack. I mean, Tucker got Substack dot com and then my Instagram is at Tuckered Out podcast and you and I are going to be doing a South Asian podcast event in I am so, so ready like sometime soon. So I'm doing one in DC in June for the impact group. So we're focusing on South Asians and politics in the US and I have some big names on that one and so we can totally make it happen in London.

James C: 1:07:33

Amy Tucker from the Podcast Academy. There is a longer version of that interview on Pod News Extra, which you can get wherever you got this podcast probably. So go and hunt out that podcast if you want to hear more about her podcast and more from Sam and Amy's chat.

Sam Sethi: 1:07:55

Now, one other event coming up on Tuesday the 9th of May here in the UK city versus the all using an event called pot pitching with Brett Spencer and the team. I'll be going along. It'll be an interesting evening. So if you fancy coming along and hearing some of the students and seeing what pitches they're doing for their new podcast projects do turn up.

James C: 1:08:17

Yeah, and it's pretty clever because they get to pitch their podcast projects to all kinds of people, including the BBC's Khaliq Mair, Toby Doris from Listen, Matt Hale from Rethink Audio and a bunch of other folk as well. So that's a pretty clever thing, isn't it? If you're if you're busy working on podcasts to be able to actually try and sell them to some of the biggest commissioners in the UK industry, that's a pretty impressive thing. So it'll be interesting to find out how all of that goes. And the IEB has announced the agenda for the OBE podcast upfront. It's on May the 11th. I notice that CONAN O'Brien is going to be one of the people who is speaking there. And yes, that's going on in New York. But if you can't be bothered to go to New York, you can enjoy that virtually as well. And they have asked me whether or not I would like to enjoy it virtually. And my answer has been no, because

that's 3: 1:09:15

00 in the morning. I'm not doing that. The New Zealand Podcast Summit is happening in Auckland on the 13th of May. I will be over there finishing off the day with slides. Brilliant. Can't wait for any of that. And of course there's the podcast show 2023 in London, which now interestingly, I've been given a I've been given a slide saying that I am speaking. So apparently I am speaking even if I'm not on on the schedule yet. So there you go. You can use the code pod news to grab your passes at a discount if you want the podcast show London dot com is where to get those so that will be good And that is towards the end of May and Sam and I will also be there.

Sam Sethi: 1:10:03

Hmm. Are we going to be on stage or are they going to bump us off again? This last year

James C: 1:10:06

That's an excellent question. And I don't

Sam Sethi: 1:10:07

just.

James C: 1:10:08

know, we're not actually there right now, are we? So yes, we will.

Sam Sethi: 1:10:14

No,

James C: 1:10:14

We will

Sam Sethi: 1:10:15

no,

James C: 1:10:15

wait

Sam Sethi: 1:10:15

I think

James C: 1:10:15

and see.

Sam Sethi: 1:10:15

we've been bumped off again.

James C: 1:10:16

One more thing that I will

Sam Sethi: 1:10:17

Oh,

James C: 1:10:17

be at. Well, actually a couple more radio days. North America, which is in Toronto in early June and podcast movement in Denver, which is late August as well. By the way, if you received an email from some random company talking to you about rubbish, airport, hotels, marketers, spam, it's got nothing to do with podcast movement. I checked. So there we go. And then of course, there are events as well Pod News Live, which is happening in Salford on the 13th of June. Gosh, that's quite close now isn't it. We should do some, we should do some planning for that and

Sam Sethi: 1:10:56

Oh,

James C: 1:10:56

part news live in September. On September the 27th. Tickets for both of those are on sale right now. If you'd like to join us. pod news dot net slash live. And there are more events both paid for and free at Pod news Virtual events or events in a place whose people and if you're organising something, tell the world about it's free to be listed. Pod news dot net slash events. Oh, it's our favorite of the week. Sam. It's Booster Graham Corner. We didn't have any last week,

Sam Sethi: 1:11:33

though.

James C: 1:11:33

so I'm delighted that we've had so many this week.

Sam Sethi: 1:11:37

Indeed. Dave Jones, the pot sage himself, said Phase six of the namespace will close on June the first. So let's see what we can polish up and get as consensus he gave us. Is that a rush boost? 12,112 slots.

James C: 1:11:54

I think it's a big rush post. Yes,

Sam Sethi: 1:11:56

A big rush base. There

James C: 1:11:57

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 1:11:57

they go.

James C: 1:11:57

And thank you, Dave. It was very interesting listening to both Dave and Adam getting very, very, very grumpy on the Podcasting 2.0 podcast last week. Adam particularly, gosh, about some of the interminable conversations going on on the, on the GitHub of oh, some somebody just thought up a really simple idea, let's make it four times more complicated. So yes, I think that that's a good thing. Worthwhile taking a look at that. Shireen from the Mere Mortals podcast, thank you for your row of ducks. Double to double to SAS. Keen to hear Stephen

Sam Sethi: 1:12:36

Yeah.

James C: 1:12:36

P's interview, he said that was last week,

Sam Sethi: 1:12:39

Yes.

James C: 1:12:39

so

Sam Sethi: 1:12:40

But

James C: 1:12:40

you'll

Sam Sethi: 1:12:40

it didn't come through

James C: 1:12:40

have heard it. He's been amazing in helping support new tags from the very beginning, and then he sent a double row of ducks double foldable for epic chat with Stephen. I was hanging off every word so excited

Sam Sethi: 1:12:55

with

James C: 1:12:55

at the moment for where we'll be in a few months time and where this will all be in the future. Go podcasting. Calm down, Karin, but thank you for the SAT so that's great.

Sam Sethi: 1:13:05

Dave Jones as well. He had a huge smile on my face. Listen to this. So thanks, Dave. Yes, it was a very good interview with Steve and Steve. It's very interesting to talk to

James C: 1:13:14

Yes. And he also sent another another boost, 5150 SATs, which I was just looking up if you heard the clatter of the keyboard. Great interview with Stephen Bell. He is such a solid guy. Numa ology. Let me just have a quick look. Here we go. An initial list right here we are, 5150. Is it on the numerology? Yes, it's a Van Halen boost. There you go. Because of course it is.

Sam Sethi: 1:13:47

this

James C: 1:13:47

Why is it Van Halen Boast

Sam Sethi: 1:13:49

and

James C: 1:13:49

5150

Sam Sethi: 1:13:49

I've got to start getting get that and put some soul boosts in there. That's what my job

James C: 1:13:54

if

Sam Sethi: 1:13:54

is going to be this week. I'm going to get some numbers and soul boosts.

James C: 1:13:56

yes. And of

Sam Sethi: 1:13:57

I

James C: 1:13:57

course,

Sam Sethi: 1:13:57

don't know what

James C: 1:13:58

5150

Sam Sethi: 1:13:58

they will be,

James C: 1:13:59

is the seventh studio album by American rock band Van Halen. It was released in

Sam Sethi: 1:14:05

but

James C: 1:14:05

1986. What's the biggest song on that album? It's Why Can't This Be Love? I knew that. And and the tone wrecker said, It's a row of ducks as well. Fantastic to have Stephen be on to get some additional recognition for the amount of effort and creativity he's bringing to a new wave of creators, discovering the tools he is making available in a world overrun with takers need to celebrate these talented makers. Well done. That's a great thing.

Sam Sethi: 1:14:41

indeed,

James C: 1:14:41

Thank you so much for that. If you get value from what we do or you just want to get point over in this very podcast, then the Pod news weekly review is separate from pod news. Sam and I share everything from it. We really appreciate your support so we can continue making the show and buying each other beers. You can become a power supporter, a weekly Diet Pod news dot net. Thanks to Buzz Sprout, You can subscribe in Apple Podcasts for Apple Echo slash pod news. Thank you Tim Apple or support us with stats. Thank you Dave and Adam by hitting the boost button in your podcast app and of course Steven B and if you don't have one pod news dot net slash new podcast apps will help you find a new app as well. So what's been happening for you this week? Sam

Sam Sethi: 1:15:22

well, I went up to the Birmingham Podcast Festival, met up with Nina Robinson and a few other speakers. I took my daughter, poor thing. But no, she did want to come with me

James C: 1:15:32

Why

Sam Sethi: 1:15:33

so. Well, she's thinking of going to Birmingham University.

James C: 1:15:35

has she never been to Birmingham?

Sam Sethi: 1:15:37

Well, no, she won't be going again. But. But she did want to go and have a look around Birmingham University. So we spent the morning at the Blaming Meghan Podcast Festival and then went around the university in the afternoon. It was very useful this

James C: 1:15:51

Very nice. What else?

Sam Sethi: 1:15:53

I'm also talking to just Kaufman, Ariel, Alison Black and Laura Purcell about maybe doing a small sort of side projects. She podcast London I'll let you know I'm talking to them on Friday so we'll talk about it on next week's show. If anything comes of it.

James C: 1:16:08

Yes, well, that sounds nice. Maybe we could do that at some

Sam Sethi: 1:16:12

So

James C: 1:16:12

point around Pod News Live, maybe. Or would

Sam Sethi: 1:16:15

yeah,

James C: 1:16:16

it be for later?

Sam Sethi: 1:16:17

I'm not sure. Let's have a think about it and talk offline.

James C: 1:16:20

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 1:16:20

But I'm also talking to the wonderful Tom Rossi about podcast text, which I hate. And we talk about

James C: 1:16:30

You've never mentioned it.

Sam Sethi: 1:16:31

no, no, no in therapy only. And the idea that Tom Scott of adding web hooks to to automate the that we authenticate podcasters. So Tom and I are having a quick chat on Friday and you never know we'll see what we come up with

James C: 1:16:48

Excellent. Well, that's also a very smart thing. And you're meeting somebody from a big company that probably doesn't want to be mentioned. So we.

Sam Sethi: 1:16:56

Yes I know I will leave that last one, but it's very nice to go to Battersea Power

James C: 1:17:00

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 1:17:00

Station. That's all I

James C: 1:17:01

Battersea

Sam Sethi: 1:17:01

will say.

James C: 1:17:01

Power Station

Sam Sethi: 1:17:02

Now.

James C: 1:17:02

is very, very fancy. So yes.

Sam Sethi: 1:17:05

Yes, £9 billion is spent on doing

James C: 1:17:08

Yeah.

Sam Sethi: 1:17:08

that up.

James C: 1:17:09

Looks fantastic. I'm looking forward to seeing if I can get an excuse to go and take a peek at that when I'm next in London.

Sam Sethi: 1:17:16

Hmm. Now, James, what's been happening for you? You had your last day in Berlin. You wrote your lovely Berlin Airport report as well.

James C: 1:17:22

I did write my lovely Berlin Airport reports as well. If you would like to read my interminable trip reports, then you're more than welcome. My personal website James Dot Cridland dot net and you will find some blogs in there this time in the in the style of a of lots of tips. So yes but gosh I took all of the planes I'll tell you Berlin Airport I was really excited about Berlin Airport because it's the newest big airport pretty well anywhere in the world. And I thought, well, this will be amazing to go and see. And it was really dingy and dark and yet badly signed. It's got those slippy marble floors that make you work twice

Sam Sethi: 1:18:15

It

James C: 1:18:15

as hard to get anywhere.

Sam Sethi: 1:18:17

can't be worse than Charles de

James C: 1:18:18

Yeah,

Sam Sethi: 1:18:18

Gaulle.

James C: 1:18:18

just

Sam Sethi: 1:18:19

Yeah,

James C: 1:18:19

really. Yeah. So that was a big sad thing. So yes, but anyway, if you want to read any more of that James dot Cridland dot net as you way, you'll find my own personal blog. You're welcome to it. And also Sam, I,

Sam Sethi: 1:18:33

My

James C: 1:18:34

I also got and I'm going to show you this on the screen.

Sam Sethi: 1:18:36

mum

James C: 1:18:37

I also got one of these. Do you know what one of those is?

Sam Sethi: 1:18:41

is a dolphin whistle.

James C: 1:18:43

A dolphin whistle. You're very nearly right. Yes. This is a thing called a flipper zero. It's it's all the rage. And I ordered this when I could. And it's basically it's basically a hacking tool and it lets you hack into all kinds of things. It lets you hack into, you know, radio remote controls, infrared remote controls and stuff like that. I'm looking forward to taking it and turning my televisions off in pubs with it. So that's going to be one of my one

Sam Sethi: 1:19:13

Oh,

James C: 1:19:13

of my plans. So.

Sam Sethi: 1:19:15

don't go. Don't go and sits in the back of a PowerPoint presentation

James C: 1:19:18

Oh

Sam Sethi: 1:19:18

and turn that

James C: 1:19:18

yeah.

Sam Sethi: 1:19:19

off

James C: 1:19:19

Well

Sam Sethi: 1:19:19

or.

James C: 1:19:19

it'll,

Sam Sethi: 1:19:19

Or

James C: 1:19:19

it'll,

Sam Sethi: 1:19:19

if you get put

James C: 1:19:20

it'll

Sam Sethi: 1:19:20

out.

James C: 1:19:21

do, it'll do all of that. Yes. It's a very,

Sam Sethi: 1:19:23

Oh,

James C: 1:19:24

very

Sam Sethi: 1:19:24

can

James C: 1:19:24

bad

Sam Sethi: 1:19:24

I

James C: 1:19:24

tech.

Sam Sethi: 1:19:24

borrow it then. Can I borrow it. Very well in London. Because if I'm bored of a presentation, I can

James C: 1:19:29

Yeah.

Sam Sethi: 1:19:29

go next

James C: 1:19:30

Just,

Sam Sethi: 1:19:30

click, next

James C: 1:19:30

just,

Sam Sethi: 1:19:31

click.

James C: 1:19:31

just press the button and away you go. Yeah. It's, it's,

Sam Sethi: 1:19:34

Wow.

James C: 1:19:34

it's the most amazing thing.

Sam Sethi: 1:19:35

The most amazing

James C: 1:19:36

So yes, I'm very pleased with that. But yes, deeply illicit and I'm slightly one worried about going through airport security with this in case anybody knows what it really is. But still, if anybody has any tips and tricks on what to do with a flipper than flipper zero, then by all means, get in touch. That will be lovely. And that's it for

Sam Sethi: 1:20:01

yeah,

James C: 1:20:01

this week.

Sam Sethi: 1:20:01

you can give us feedback using email to weekly upload news dot net or send us a boost to Chrome. If your podcast app doesn't support boosting, grab a new app for all pod news. Don't let Ford slash new podcast apps.

James C: 1:20:13

Music is from Studio Dragonfly I. VOICEOVER is Sheila D, and we're hosted and sponsored by Buzz Brown's podcast, hosting Made Easy.