James Cridland: 0:00

It's Friday, the 19th of April 2024.

Speaker 2: 0:04

The last word in podcasting news. This is the Pod News Weekly Review with James Cridland and Sam Sethi.

James Cridland: 0:12

I'm James Cridland, the editor of Pod News.

Sam Sethi: 0:15

And I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO of True Fans.

James Cridland: 0:17

In the chapters. Today, the longest running newsletter about podcasting is taking a hiatus. Your Substack podcast is now available on Spotify. Also, the Podcast Standards Project announced more than two and a half million podcast transcripts. Spotify says the audiobooks are a big success and there are also audio booming numbers too. Plus.

Jeremy: 0:39

Hi, I'm Jeremy King, ceo of the M&M Global Awards, and I will be on later to talk about our brand new podcast category, with which we've teamed up with a wonderful Acast.

Sean Howard: 0:49

Hi, my name is Sean Howard. I am the CEO and founder of Flight Path and also been an avid podcaster in the fiction space for a very, very long time, and later on we're going to be talking about Flight Path, or so.

James Cridland: 1:03

I'm told they will. This podcast is sponsored by Buzzsprout. Podcast hosting made easy With easy and powerful tools, free learning materials, remarkable customer support and a new iOS app.

Speaker 2: 1:14

From your daily newsletter, the Pod News Weekly Review.

Sam Sethi: 1:19

Two and a half million transcripts that sounds like an amazing number. The Podcast Standards Project announced that this week. What's this one about?

James Cridland: 1:30

What's the Podcast Standards Project about Sam?

Sam Sethi: 1:33

It's there to promote open standards across podcasting, and this is an interesting one. Actually, the podcast transcript has been part of the 1.0 certification. Apple themselves are using it allegedly, but the good news is that not just Apple, but Podcast Addict, fountain, podcast Guru and many other apps are using it, and in the aggregate, it looks like there's over 2.5 million podcast episodes now using Transcript, which is a big win, I think.

James Cridland: 2:03

Yeah, I think so. And I mean you say allegedly they are using it. They're using it very well, but they're using it as a fallback for their own service. If you want things like speaker names, for example, then the only way that you can do that is to submit your own transcript, and you have to go. If you haven't already done this, you have to go into Apple. You haven't already done this. You have to go into Apple Podcasts Connect and say I would like you to use my transcripts please. But that's all a fine and dandy thing and, as you say, they also appear in all kinds of other places as well. So that's really good. Some really good announcements over the last week about podcast hosts using transcripts OSHA our friends at OSHA have now added transcripts and transcript generation and Castapod as well, also adding support for transcripts too. So all of that is pretty good, I think.

Sam Sethi: 2:56

Yeah, and I think we're going to be seeing a few more companies announcing in the next couple of weeks as well, because I've been doing the ring round, as they say, and, yeah, it's exciting to hear people are actually, you know, pushing hard now to add more and more tags to their platforms. The other one, though, was Superchapters. James. There's over 30,000 podcasts that have Superchapters. What are Superchapters?

James Cridland: 3:19

Yes, well, superchapters. I think Superchaptersiel j lewis's name for them, but they're chapters which are no, no, no that's uh davidas oh, davidas, is it?

James Cridland: 3:29

oh well, there you go. So, uh, davidas's name for them, but anyway, they are. Um, the way that podcast transcripts used to work is that you used to put the information about a chapter into your audio file, um, and so that meant that you couldn't do anything clever with the browser, because your browser couldn't actually see those special tags. Also, it meant that if you wanted to edit what the chapter said, perhaps to put more information in them, then you had to re-upload the audio. So, not a fantastic plan. So the benefit of super chapters is that they are a separate JSON file which is linked to from the RSS, and the really good news is that Pocket Casts have just rolled out full support for those. So if you're using Pocket Casts, as many many people do, then Pocket Casts will now support those super chapters, as does Buzzsprout, by the way. So, yeah, so I think that all of that is very good, seeing both podcast transcripts and seeing super chapters being supported.

Sam Sethi: 4:34

Yeah, the PSP 1.1 certification, which has been agreed by most people now, is going to include support for chapters, so I'm hoping that before June we'll be able to make some big announcements on that one as well.

James Cridland: 4:48

Yeah, no, I think all of that is very good, and plenty of people who are supporting chapters already RSS Blue, of course, since you mentioned Dovid Asp, but also Blueberry PowerPress as well, podhome, you know, casterpod, justcast, and so the list goes on, and Transistor, of course. So yeah, so a bunch of people supporting it. So all good news, I think.

Speaker 2: 5:11

Stories better told, stories better found.

Sean Howard: 5:15

Welcome to a new era in media.

Sam Sethi: 5:28

Pave Podcast founder Max Cutler has announced the launch of a new media company called Pave Studios.

James Cridland: 5:30

They say that they are positioned across video, audio books and entertainment. The press release I noticed didn't use the word podcast at all anywhere, although the video does mention that they will be involved in podcasts. So Max Cutler? He calls himself a multi-hyphenate entrepreneur. Yes, what is that? It basically means that you've got lots of. You know, you're a writer, editor, coder, all of the hyphens in between there. That's what multi-hyphenate means. Oh, OK, yeah, I know.

Sam Sethi: 6:03

But anyway he founded Parcast Studios.

James Cridland: 6:06

He's clearly been working on something because he's engaged a PR company to promote the fact every time he writes a LinkedIn essay. Then, weirdly, I was getting emails from somebody at a PR company saying you might want to know that Max Cutler, the founder of Parcast, has just posted something on LinkedIn. Oh, I want one of those. Yes, I'm not quite sure the point of all of that, but anyway, and yeah, so this is another one of these large companies that think that they've got a plan very similar to the conversation with Stephen Bartlett last week or the week before. Pave Studios is apparently paving the way see what they did there for a new era in media, and they are wanting to if I can quote from the press release create fandoms through written, audio and video content. Yes, so, anyway, so that's what Pave Studios is doing. I'm not quite sure, frankly, what Pave Studios is doing, but they seem to have, you know, signed up a bunch of people, so that all seems good.

Sam Sethi: 7:17

The thing that did jump out at me was the fact that, okay, they didn't mention podcasts, but they did talk about audio books and they did talk about other forms of content. I'm assuming that's all in RSS and I think that's the only thing that I thought was quite interesting about the whole story, because I'm hoping more hosts will jump on board to support the medium tag and then start to support medium equals music, medium equals film, courses, audiobooks, etc. Because that's really where I think RSS has to go. We have to broaden beyond. Yes, podcasting is going to be 80-90% of RSS, that's not going to change, but I think there is an opportunity to extend the reach of podcasting or RSS with more medium tag support, the reach of podcasting or RSS with more medium tag support, but so far, I have to say, james, not a lot of interest from hosts.

James Cridland: 8:10

No, and I think this is going to be a chicken and an egg thing of you know. Are there enough podcast players that are decent enough that are dealing with this stuff, and can you also see a business plan there? The business plan around an audio book is really easy you pay for the audio book and then you can listen to it. There's no business plan necessarily for the whole value for value concept, although you know I mean clearly you would argue, well, you know there absolutely is, but it's a very different business plan that needs a lot more convincing than going in and buying something. So I suspect that you know it'll be slow.

James Cridland: 8:46

But yeah, I think you're possibly assuming too much that all of this will be done at the end of an RSS feed. I think this is probably a little bit closer to the kind of standard thing that a talent agency would have done in the past looking after a bunch of, you know, creators, helping them develop original content, but original content across a whole range of different things. I mean it does seem that the word community is the thing that they are most keen about, so talking about video, books, live experiences, merchandise, all of that kind of thing. So, yeah, I'm not sure necessarily that it'll all be done through RSS, and heavens you know, an ex senior manager of Spotify doesn't bode well in terms of what he thinks about RSS.

Sam Sethi: 9:41

Anyway, yes, open standards. Anyway, moving on then, hotpod, one of the longest running newsletters about podcasting, is suspending publication. The leading reporter, ariel Shapiro, has announced that her last week with its owner, the Verge, will be next week. I assume that's this week. What's this one about, james?

James Cridland: 10:02

Yes, I mean, hotpod has been going for years.

James Cridland: 10:04

It's been going since 2014.

James Cridland: 10:05

Nick Quire used to write it and then it was sold to the Verge or to Vox Media that owns the Verge and Ashley Carman then wrote for it for a long time.

James Cridland: 10:18

Ariel Shapiro has been writing for it for the last few years three or four years or so, few years, three or four years or so and, yes, so she is finishing up with the Verge and it looks as if, well, jake Castronegas, who is the deputy editor of the Verge, said something like we won't have a new writer in place, so we're planning to put Hot Pod on hiatus while we figure out next steps. But I'll tell you one of those next steps that has been to refund every single paid subscriber to Hotpod. All of those people have got their money back. That's not necessarily something that I would expect a company which is on hiatus working out next steps to have done, and they've clearly, from my reading of that, they've clearly said well, we're not going to run this particular service, or if we are going to run it, it's just going to be a paid for. It's just going to be a free service rather than a paid for service.

Sam Sethi: 11:19

Don't they do a really big New York live event every year as well?

James Cridland: 11:24

Well, it looks as if they do, but no, the really big New York event is On Air Fest, which is a big event that is run every single year by a different company. Nick Kwa was kind of signed up as one of the people who would host a day and make that day a bit more of a business day, and obviously Ariel Shapiro has been looking after that for the last couple of years. On Airfest continues, but the question is, of course, what will happen to the Hot Pod Summit, which was the name of the thing, and I don't know. I mean, I think that the Pod News Summit has a certain ring to it, but perhaps I should get in touch with the folk at the organisation what before announcing it.

James Cridland: 12:16

Yes and see whether or not they have a different plan, which I would rather suspect that they do. But yes, so it wasn't their event, but it was one of those events where they lent their name to it and I think you can see real benefit, you know, in doing that.

Sam Sethi: 12:34

Oh well, watch this space. Now audio boom is booming. It seems it's Q1, 24 financial results. The figures show an 11% increase in growth and they see an increased continued growth for their EBITDA profit. James sounds all very good from Audioboom. They've always had some good numbers, even though they had a big dip in the middle of 23, I think, but they recovered for Christmas 23. It looks like they're really growing now again.

James Cridland: 13:03

So, yes, so the figures that are in their release are, of course, very, very positive 11% year-on-year growth in revenue, continued EBITDA profit although they're not actually making what I would call real profit, but they're making EBITDA profit and revenue per 1,000 listens, which is a very interesting number. That number five years ago was $23. So for every thousand listens they were earning $23 in revenue. Now they're earning almost twice that Well, more than twice that $52.17. Advertising not working. Well, this company seems to have doubled the amount of money that they're making from podcast advertising within five years. So I think there's some pretty good numbers really.

Sam Sethi: 13:57

Maybe we need to get them on and find out what their secret sauce is. But yes, congratulations to Audioboom. Maybe we should Now Flightpath, not a company. I've heard a lot about James, so tell me more.

James Cridland: 14:08

Yes. Well, so this is an advertising software company and, in case you're wondering, a flight is the name advertisers give to individual campaigns that they run. And Flightpath is a really clever piece of software, and one of the reasons why I was interested in it is that they spotted the Apple iOS 17 changes pretty much as soon as they happened, and so they were able to actually cut any particular pain that publishers using FlightPath would have had. Because they were able to actually spot that. I thought I would learn a little bit more. So I spoke to the CEO, sean Howard, all the way from sunny Canada and I asked him what is Flightpath?

Sean Howard: 14:54

Flightpath- is the predictive analytics platform for the podcasting space. So if you were in the enterprise business world, you would know of SAS or IBM Watson or a few other predictive analytics tools, and there's really nothing like that in the podcasting space for publishers that are looking to scale and want to identify opportunities to grow their business sell more inventory. Leave less unsold inventory on the table. Free up their ad ops team to focus on improving customer service instead of putting out fires all the time.

James Cridland: 15:30

So where did the idea come from? Was this an internal tool that you ended up building a while back?

Sean Howard: 15:37

So I was a buyer in the space, buying podcast ads for podcasts. Working with Dan Meisner, I was running Fable and Folly, which is an independent, one of the larger independent fiction publishers. I was building tools to help us scale the publishing side of the business with a tiny team. And on the buy side, it was frustrating how hard it was to give people money in this space. It becomes quickly apparent when you're a buyer that people have no idea what they have to sell, and I've never been in an industry where that's the case, where you don't know what you have to sell or when. And it was frustrating to always be, as the buyer, to be the one finding every problem.

Sean Howard: 16:27

And so Flight Path was also the other side of it, which was on the publishing side. We were, you know, managing a lot of demands right from different buyers and from brands to DM, you know, across the board, and there were no tools to tell us what we had to sell or or to predict performance and delivery and to get us ahead of the curve. Where we were, we knew everything was good and everything was going to run Right. So so, yeah, it sort of just came out of that. And then it was actually Brian Barletta who saw it one day and I did a tweet and he called me and I know, brian, he was like you got to show me this. And when I showed it to him, he basically said you're an idiot, you've got to get this on the market. So he started developing it for real.

James Cridland: 17:14

In terms of because I'm curious, one of the tools that you have in Flight Path is flighting alerts, which I guess tells you, as you are in the middle of a campaign, whether or not you will actually deliver that campaign. What sort of shows work best with that? I guess if you've got a weekly always on show, it's easier to predict where you're going to be going than if you've got a limited series, for example.

Sean Howard: 17:39

Yeah, so we basically have the first alert system that I'm aware of that works across order management systems and multiple DAI platforms and it works at every stage. So we will alert teams to orders that haven't even started yet. Right, problems. But, to answer your question, it's a really good one. Uh, we started developing our, our algorithms, um, working with fiction, which was you know, there's nothing always on. You know very little that's always on. It's all seasonal, right, it's the. The dates are always shifting for launch.

Sean Howard: 18:12

So there are nice things about like an always on show, but there's challenges to that as well, right, how do you identify a sudden spike of of tire kickers from actual, continuing listeners? And so there's stuff on both sides, and so, yeah, our alert system is around all the things that can go wrong. If your sales team in the order management platform has sold a pixel and there's no pixel on the order three days out, we alert the ad ops team. If there's a change in performance, predicted performance in the future, we'll alert the ops team. It just goes on and on. If DAI starts delivering over cap, like you say I only want to deliver 200,000 impressions and some platforms will deliver half a million we will alert and stop that order. Just a lot of alerts around that.

James Cridland: 19:01

I'm guessing your tool must have spotted the changes in Apple podcasts that happened towards the end of last year and I'm guessing that your tools were one of the first sort of you know. Your customers actually realized that there was something odd going on here.

Sean Howard: 19:16

We were one of the four companies that were at the table, discovering that we spent our time basically determining the exposure of every one of our clients, our time basically determining the exposure of every one of our clients.

Sean Howard: 19:28

Yeah, our tool was critical in being able to pace that down as it was happening, because once we all were like, yeah, you, this is happening, but for the longest time Apple was saying we're not going to do anything, right, we're not going to change anything.

Sean Howard: 19:39

And then when that started to feel like Apple, might you know you, just we didn't know when right, it was really neat watching how we could correct, on an hour by hour basis, the quotes going out from the sales team. But the problem is, you know, it takes two to three to four weeks sometimes to close an IO. So so you know then, you know our, our, our tools help you reassess. But you know, now you're, now you're about to sign and you don't want to go back and say, oh, we got to drop it by 30 points or 20 points or whatever we're dropping down to right. Some people were really hit hard and so, yeah, it was neat to see how we could help these customers both lower their impact, the impact to them, but also helping their teams. We have a white glove service, so we are in there helping teams figure out how to fix these campaigns right.

James Cridland: 20:32

If there's anything that shows the benefit of a piece of software like Flight Path, it strikes me that it's those things that nobody was really expecting and all of a sudden you were able to catch that quite early and really help people.

Sean Howard: 20:50

I think, coming out of it, it was neat, not neat, it was horrible. It was a horrifying experience for everyone, right. But from a math and data science point of view, it's fascinating to see the shape of that curve and realize that it's very similar to another black swan event that we have in our data set, and not quite as extreme. And so that leads us now to think it would have been nice, going through it, to have been able to predict the exit. You know where's the cushion, where's the soft landing for this, where's the cushion, where's the soft landing for this? And so it was really. I guess the silver lining is, I think it's possible for us, in a future event, to add another level, which is to give that idea of. This is going to be over in December, but yeah, it was a tough time for everyone.

James Cridland: 21:41

You work with a lot of podcast ad platforms and technologies. What have you learned about podcast advertising from it?

Sean Howard: 21:49

I think those of us that are in podcasting it feels old, but what I've learned is it's still the Wild West, we are still figuring it out right on how to scale businesses in this space. That is just new. You know, we've you know, we saw a flurry of consolidations or shows being bought. You know, we've, you know we saw a flurry of consolidations or shows being bought. You know, we've seen a lot of experiments. But I think the idea of a few people who met in their you know, in their kitchen and started a show and pulled a few shows together and built a network they're now running multi million dollar publishing businesses, right, and so those amazing content creators now looking to scale and grow from podcasting into other places is really neat. And it's I than that in podcasting, oh yeah most definitely, most definitely.

James Cridland: 22:37

So I think it is still a new thing for most people Are the mistakes that people are making that you see time and time again that your software can help with.

Sean Howard: 22:59

Yeah, we all have to stop pacing on actuals. Our whole industry is built on pace on actuals right. So you, there is no predictive right In our space like that you can trust. And so you're paying. Every company is paying their teams and it gets worse as they scale to basically copy and paste data every day into Excel spreadsheets, in a crazy number of Excel spreadsheets all around, trying to pace on actuals. Meaning you know you divide the length of the run, it's 30 days and you know you just divide by how much you know you've done versus how much you left. And you, you, you try to hedge it. You're trying to do all these things, but it it basically everyone is spending all their time basically monitoring spreadsheets and not the business. If those are the tools you have right, then those are the tools that your team has learned to be successful with, and they have.

Sean Howard: 23:59

I have seen some epic solutions out there, right, just hodgepodge together at all levels. Out there, right, just hodgepodge together at all levels. But I think when we start to see these companies invest in tools and software for the business and predictive, we start to see this amazing opportunity to free those people up to delivering a level of service that's unmatched, right Like actually being responsive, actually finding problems and contacting buyers months before their campaign starts to fix something. Like that's unheard of in our industry, um, and it's not in other industries, and so I I but but that that idea of investing in the business and buying enterprise software is also alien, right To many of us in the space, myself included originally. So I think it's that if there's anything, it's like, what point do we realize this is a really good business and I can scale this, and what tools do I need to do that? Something really amazing happens when we start to move into the world, away from Pace on Actuals into Predictive, where your teams can start to be working on June, july and you can start to look at campaign performance rolled up in the future. And you can actually start to look at your year in a financial model, not like in most QuickBooks or software, where it's like year to date compared to last year, right Like you can actually look at your full year of everything booked and be like how are we pacing right as a company in our projected financial performance this year and what's that look like now? And that's a really fun corner to watch clients take right that change in mindset and what that opens up for a business, because I think one thing that really annoys me is is that you don't see it like you don't, it doesn't happen anywhere, like around you or any of your publications.

Sean Howard: 26:06

But but you know, there's still this belief, I think, in the larger media world, that podcasting is a backwater or young or, you know, it hasn't figured itself out yet, and that that there aren't real businesses. You know what I mean there and and that is not true, there is, as you and I know, there's such diversity and amazing new voices and content and amazing companies coming out of this space. But we are, we're young, right, and we're still finding our way, and I think it's. I'm so fascinated to see what happens when, instead of, you know, tv and film trying to come into podcasting, it's podcasting moving into those realms, right, as these kinds of companies stepping forward and saying we have an audience, we know what that audience wants more than other people do.

James Cridland: 26:54

Where can people go to find out more? Sean, they can go to flightpathfm.

Sean Howard: 26:57

I used to have a Twitter but I sort of walked away from that. But yeah, flightpathfm is probably the best place.

James Cridland: 27:05

Sean Howard, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

Sean Howard: 27:07

Oh, anytime man Appreciate you having me on.

Speaker 2: 27:09

From your daily newsletter, the Pod News Weekly Review.

Sam Sethi: 27:14

Right, James, time to zip around the world. The UK media regulator, Ofcom, has released data on audio listening in the UK. What came out of it wasn't great news, James.

James Cridland: 27:27

Well, it wasn't really great news. It was that podcast listening isn't growing, apparently, according to this data. Having said that, the data does show an incredible jump in younger audiences. So younger audiences spending much longer with podcasts than before is spending much longer with podcasts than before. So, from that point of view, that was some really good numbers that actually came out of it.

James Cridland: 27:53

There's a ton of detail and I think one of the most interesting parts of the data is just actually seeing, firstly, that they published the entire data, all of the tables and stuff, online, which meant that people like Adam Bowie, who enjoys playing around with numbers for fun, he ended up chewing through the numbers and has pulled a ton of detail out of it. So that's a good start. But also, you know, yeah, just having a look at some of the data, the most popular podcast genres in the UK entertainment, followed by news and current affairs, followed by comedy. Talking about exciting data, the IAB released their IAB Internet Advertising Revenue Report. Internet audio is doing better than the whole of the internet. In that internet ad revenue grew 7%. Internet audio grew 19%. It's 7.2 billion dollars, which is, from memory, something like 3% of all of internet ad revenue. So it's still quite small, but we'll learn the actual podcast revenue numbers on May, the 9th, because internet audio, of course, is a little bit more than just podcasting.

Sam Sethi: 29:10

And staying down under with you, james. The Australian podcast Ranker for March was released. What happened?

James Cridland: 29:16

Yes, so Hamish Nandy is back to number one. Amazing what happens when you release a show, which is what they were actually doing. They hadn't released anything for January or for February. Their first show was actually released on February the 28th. So, surprise, surprise, in March, hamish and Andy returning to number one. One thing I did spot is that the show used to use very bad titles Hamish and Andy 2023, episode 240. Useless title. So now they're using titles like the Amazing Hat Prank, which is much better. So well done them.

James Cridland: 29:56

The ABC's Conversation is number one by total downloads. What is interesting, though, is iHeart here in Australia has been promoting themselves as number one for podcasts. They're number one in one of the rankings and I can't quite remember which, because, frankly, I don't care, but anyway, one of the interesting things that's going on here is that ARN is buying SCA, so ARN owns the iHeart brand here. Sca is their competitor. They own the listener brand here, but what an analyst from Morgan Stanley is saying is that ARN would basically jump away from iHeart, close that app and use the listener app instead, so the listener app will be a pretty big app in this particular country. So, yeah, which is interesting to see.

Sam Sethi: 30:49

Never use a listening app. So and who's Hamish and Andy? I probably should find out.

James Cridland: 30:54

They do a very good show. It's worth a listen to the Hamish and Andy podcast, if only because it sounds like a radio show and that's because it used to be a radio show but it isn't anymore. But there's an awful lot of user participation all the way through. There's telephone calls, there's you know, they have listeners in all of that. Listener participation happens all the way through and it's really unusual for a podcast which is normally much less so. So, yeah, it's worth a listen.

Sam Sethi: 31:24

Okay, Moving on events and awards.

James Cridland: 31:32

Quill was one of the winners of the Canadian Business Innovation Awards 2024. Congratulations to Fatima and her team for that. The winners of the Spanish language global podcast Ondas Awards 2024 were announced, as well as have the New York Festival's Radio Awards. They have also announced the winners. 23 gold winners and bloodlines from CBC and the BBC won a grand award there.

Sam Sethi: 31:59

There's a shortlist. That's been announced, hasn't there? Yeah, the shortlist for the Publisher Podcast Awards has been announced. The winners will be announced on June, the 12th in London. And a good idea. Each award category has a playlist to listen to the nominations. So you're going to be putting out an OPML list, James?

James Cridland: 32:13

are you? I will. I put out OPML lists of winners, not shortlists, but I really liked the idea that they've actually bothered to produce a complete playlist of each award category so you can have a listen to the short lists there. There is also the Publisher Podcast Summit, which is happening that day as well in June.

Sam Sethi: 32:36

I'm so glad you said that yes it's easy to say, isn't it?

James Cridland: 32:41

There is also the UK Audio Network, which is, I believe, what UKAN stand for. They have announced that they've got some audio awards as well. There are some categories in there, including Podcast Producer of the Year and Podcast Host of the Year, and that sort of thing, and the Festival of Media, M&M Global Awards. Chocolate Awards Chocolate.

Sam Sethi: 33:05

Awards exactly. That's the only reason I was excited about it. No, we got contacted by ACAST to alert us to this new award. Well, it's not a new award. The M&M Global Awards have been around for a while, but they've added podcasting as a new category now to the awards, and ACAST have sponsored it. So I got on the blower to Jeremy King, the CEO of the Global M&M Festival, and spoke to Lizzie Pollitt as well, from ACAST to tell us more about what the M&M Global Awards are about.

Jeremy: 33:37

They are a awards program that was set up 35 years ago to celebrate, initially, the best international media campaigns on the planet, so any kind of advertising, communications or media strategy that was implemented for brands ranging from automotive to FMCG, to retail, to finance, etc. So just to kind of celebrate and showcase the amazing work that happens in the global media space.

Sam Sethi: 34:06

So how did you get involved?

Jeremy: 34:09

Basically, we bought the M&M Global Awards into our portfolio of awards. We run another company called Fessler Media and we decided that it was an old heritage brand. It was a typical B2B awards program that had come out of B2B magazine and we decided that the magazine disappeared, so we thought we'll buy the awards program. So we bought the awards program in 2009 and have been running it since then and it's got a lot of old supporters and it's starting to gain a new audience now, which is one of the reasons why we are creating new categories each year to ensure we showcase the work that brands are doing in the media space.

Sam Sethi: 34:48

That sounds really cool. Now, obviously, this is a show about podcasting, so why are we talking about this award when it sounds like, generically, it's a media award? Why are we talking about it on a podcasting show?

Jeremy: 35:01

Because each year, when we are launching our awards programs, we speak to the industry to ensure that our categories represent what is happening within their campaigns, and one of the key findings that popped out this year was all around podcasts and how podcasts are being used as a driver or a focal point of a marketing and media strategy. So we thought let's create a new category. And Eminem, although it's old, is also always up for change and transformation. So we felt this was the best program in our portfolio to include a podcast category.

Sam Sethi: 35:35

LP. I guess that's where you and ACAST come in. How were you approached and why have you got involved with this M&M Global Festival?

Lizzy Pollott: 35:44

Well, I mean, why have I got involved? First is because we want to celebrate and champion anything that raises a profile of podcast advertising and, as we all know, podcast advertising is growing exponentially. More and more advertisers are using podcasts in unique and clever and creative ways to reach their target audiences. But we still know all of us know that podcasting is still massively under-invested in when it comes to advertising spend, and we want to change that. So the minute Jeremy approached us and I've worked in the advertising industry in the UK for nearly 20 years I know you can't believe it to look at me and so I've been a close follower of the Eminem's work in general and the Global Awards, and so it was obviously a no-brainer for us as a cast to get involved as soon as Jeremy got in touch with us. So, yeah, looking forward to seeing how it evolves, the entries and how we can celebrate all the effectiveness that podcast advertising brings she's such a professional.

Sam Sethi: 36:37

I'll use the word entries then to ask Jeremy and when are the entries?

Jeremy: 36:42

yes, so we are now open for entries. We opened last week and we work in three tiers. The idea is to encourage people to hit deadlines, but inevitably everyone leaves their work to the last minute. So if you are on the bull and you want to enter early and take advantage of a discounted price, then you can enter by Thursday, the 25th of April. If you miss that deadline, you can enter by the 16th of May, and then there is no discount if you enter on the extended deadline, which is Thursday, the 13th of June.

Sam Sethi: 37:11

OK, so let's talk about the price for entry. What is the cost for entering the awards?

Jeremy: 37:17

Yes, so it's £390 for an early bird entry, £425 for a standard and £475 if you come to the extended deadline.

Sam Sethi: 37:28

Okay, and who's judging the awards?

Jeremy: 37:31

So, yes, good question, very good question. So the judges 75% to 85% of the judges will be global brands, so those who are in the marketing and media space, senior global execs from anywhere from. I think we've got Unilever, p&g, philips, samsung, bayer and Volvo signed up as part of the jury so far. We then have someone represented from each of the agency media agency networks, and then we'll have a smattering of independent agencies and maybe one or two media owners involved as well.

Sam Sethi: 38:04

So, lizzie, I assume you're going to be one of the judges as well. I guess you would be I hope so.

Sam Sethi: 38:10

It's massively awkward if you say that now and jeremy says nah, yes yeah, I thought I'd throw that in just to make sure jeremy couldn't say no as it's live. But is the podcast category a single category entry, or will there be subdivisions within that category? Because I mean, podcasting is such a generic form. I mean that to lump everything in one bag might be a little bit big here's an exclusive for you which I haven't even spoke to Lizzie about yet.

Jeremy: 38:36

But this year it will be one single category to enter. But the idea is to see what work comes in this year and what work's being done and then hopefully we can then split that out into subsectors and potentially create a podcast awards program, which is something we've done. Similarly, with our Cause Campaign Awards program. We had a lot of marketing campaigns coming in for our Cause category so many in fact it was so wide that we had to create a whole program for it to ensure that it didn't kind of mess with the rest of the categories.

Sam Sethi: 39:07

When will the awards take place and where?

Jeremy: 39:09

Yes, so Thursday, the 19th of September, we are looking to secure our venue over the next couple of weeks in London. So it will be somewhere in central London, nice and easy. We do it because it's a global awards ceremony. We do it at 12 pm UK time and in the live space guests will turn up at 12 and enjoy some lunch and a few drinks and some networking. Then we turn on our virtual audience from different parts of the world and we have a kind of cinema loungy, everyman style setup for the awards program itself.

Sam Sethi: 39:39

so it's a hybrid event, but lots of good fun if you're there in person as well now lizzie, this is great that you're supporting this and thank you for doing that ACAST, but you've also been the recipient of several nominations yourself, maybe at the Webby's. Tell me more.

Lizzy Pollott: 39:56

Yeah, that's right. We've picked up well between 13 and 16, depending on how you count them nominations at the Webby's, which is exciting, and awards are interesting. Having said that, I've worked in advertising for 20 years. People have different views about awards. I'm all for anything that celebrates it and raises the profile of work as well.

Lizzy Pollott: 40:13

So, um, you know, there's also we've been nominated for, I think, the highest number at the inaugural campaign audio advertising awards as well, and I think actually, what jeremy was saying just then is really interesting, because there is one podcasting category right now in the m&m Global Awards. But you know what we're seeing? There are so many different ways to use podcasts to reach audiences that I think it's really smart to think about how we can expand these in the future, whether that's using podcasts as part of a wider media campaign or specifically creating branded content within podcasts or a whole branded series. So, yeah, it's awards season and a cast is putting in a good show across all of them, whether that's our actual podcast, whether that's our work that we're doing, or whether that's partnering with people like eminem.

Sam Sethi: 40:54

So, yeah, we love it and the last question to you, lizzie. The london podcast show is fast approaching. Um what can we expect from a cast at the london podcast show?

Lizzy Pollott: 41:06

well, here's an exclusive. I don't know if this is not an exclusive, let's pretend it is. So we've always had the a cast arms, which is our own sort of pub because, being a british-based podcast awards, we like to bring a bit of personality to it, and we're actually bringing the a cast arms to the show at the very front, so you'll see it and that's the place where we're going to be meeting People are able to network. We can hang with our podcast as advertisers. We've got loads of talks. We're bringing loads of talent down podcasters. We've got actually quite a few of our US team coming in, which is really exciting. From Tiffany, who runs our US office, we're also bringing Dan, who runs Higher Ground, the Obama's podcast company. It's going to be hard to miss us. We're really excited about it. As ever, a lot of work to do between now and then, to be honest.

Sam Sethi: 41:48

And you're fast approaching a 10-year anniversary. I hear Somebody at Podcast Movements nudged me about it and we've got Ross coming on the 24th, which is very exciting to talk about it, but can you believe? It's 10 years of ACAST.

Lizzy Pollott: 42:01

I know it's weird, isn't it? Because 10 years in most industries feels very young and podcasting is obviously very young, but therefore to have been a whole decade. When we invented dynamic ad insertion back in 2014,. Did our founders then think that podcasting would go on this journey and ACAS would go on the journey that has everything from growing to now having over 100,000 shows, to being a public company, to working with anyone and everyone around the world? It's going to be a real moment to celebrate and reflect, I guess, not just on ACAST growth, but how podcasting has grown in that time and what's going to happen in the next 10 years.

Sam Sethi: 42:36

Well, I'll ask Ross. Don't worry, I will be asking Ross, what are you planning for the next 10 years, right? So I won't put that burden on you, but congratulations as well. Podtrack number one global. So again we're all falling into place for you at the moment.

Lizzy Pollott: 42:51

LP. It's good, and I bet Jeremy's pleased that he thought to ask us before all this stuff kicked off. So he's there for a front seat for the M&M Global Awards. I don't know if that's a good answer. It just felt very PR-y to say guys.

Jeremy: 43:03

No, I liked it, I liked, no, I liked it, I liked it. I'm I'm very much looking forward to the podcast show our office dam is actually in the same building as the podcast show, so we'll be there.

Sam Sethi: 43:12

We do a drinks the night before the show kicks off. I'll add you to the list oh, thank you now, before we all go and celebrate something like the weekend again. Jeremy, first of all, where's the website? Where can people find more about these awards? How can they submit their entries? Yes, they. Where's the website? Where can people find more about these awards? How can they?

Jeremy: 43:28

submit their entries. Yes, they would go to the website, which is festalofmediacom forward slash MMG.

Sam Sethi: 43:36

Excellent and just remind me very quickly submission dates and event date.

Jeremy: 43:41

Yes, of course, event date is the 19th of September. Of course, event date is the 19th of september and, in terms of submissions, we've got the three deadlines of the 25th of april, the 16th of may and the 13th of june excellent.

Sam Sethi: 43:55

Thanks lp, thanks jeremy, thanks sam nice to see you.

Lizzy Pollott: 43:58

See you, what if I didn't see before?

Speaker 2: 44:00

see you at the podcast show podcast events on the pod news weekly review so there's a ton of events coming up.

James Cridland: 44:09

Crossed Wires in Sheffield in the UK, lots of podcasters there. Uni Podfest at Birmingham City University in the UK in early June. The next event that I will be at is the podcast show in London, which is the 22nd to the 23rd of May. You can watch this show going out live towards the end of that. You can watch me doing an opening keynote right at the beginning of that. So that should be fun as well, and we might have some drinks as well and things like that. So why not?

Sam Sethi: 44:46

Yes, we have our drinks confirmed, james, the night before Tuesday, the 21st of May. I'll put out details later, but yes, put it in your diary if you think you're going to come along. If you came along last year, you're probably coming along this year, so put it in your diary, that's all I'd say and weekly at podnewsnet.

James Cridland: 45:05

If we've got any spaces, then we'd love to hear from you Weekly at podnewsnet. We'll find that that's going to your Gmail at the moment, sam, and I should update that to go to the email account that you actually use. That would be helpful, wouldn't it?

Sam Sethi: 45:19

Well, I look at both. Still, I still look at both, you're okay? Oh well, there you go, you don't have to change.

James Cridland: 45:25

And also there's a podcast week coming up in Berlin, september the 10th to the 15th. I should say that actually, spotify has just held another event in Berlin this week. It was the event that I was speaking at last year. A very good event. I'm desperately trying to remember its name but I can't. But it was a very good, big event. They do an event for podcasting one day, an event for music the next day, and so if you were there then I hope it was a the Power Up Podcast Summit. It's $100 Canadian dollars for you to go.

James Cridland: 46:08

Lots and lots of people speaking on Sunday afternoon in Toronto at the Westin Harbour Bridge, harbour Castle, harbour something. Anyway, it's the old hotel close to Union Station. I'll be there. If you would like to be there, then Radio Days North America is what you want to be typing into your web browser and you'll find more information about the podcast power up summit. And there are more events, both paid for and free, at Pod News Virtual events or events in a place with people. If you're organising something, it's free to be listed.

Speaker 2: 46:42

Podnewsnet slash events the tech stuff on the Pod News Weekly Review.

James Cridland: 46:48

Yes, it's the stuff you'll find every Monday in the Pod News newsletter. Here's where Sam talks technology. What have you got for us this week, Sam?

Sam Sethi: 46:53

I was on as a guest on Mark Asquith's show called In and Around Podcasting and of course I said podcast apps are struggling because nobody pays for them and probably you're going to see a few of them fail. And then you go and put out, don't you? You just had to put it out there. Yes, pocket casts have 50 000 subscribers who pay them. So there, that told me, didn't it that?

James Cridland: 47:19

told you. Well. Well, I think I can possibly rescue you here, because I I didn't say I said that Pocket Casts has over 50,000 subscribers. I'm a subscriber to Pocket Casts and I don't pay because I was grandfathered in to Pocket Casts Plus. I don't know how many people were grandfathered in. It might be 40,000 for all I know. So my suspicion and I'm just being slightly rude here, but my suspicion is yes, they've got 50,000 subscribers to Pocket Casts Plus, but I don't think all 50,000 of them pay. Even so, it's a really nice number, isn't it? It is, and I did get agreement from them that I could actually mention that. They also wanted me to say but a little bit too late that there's 50% off in most countries at the moment. So if you want to get a Pocket Casts subscription, then go for it. You can get 50% off right now in your favourite app store.

Sam Sethi: 48:24

Now, data newly available from OP3 and published by the podcast Business Journal shows that the big three podcast apps Apple, amazon and Spotify account for 74% of all downloads for the over 2,000 shows measured that are currently on OP3. That sounded very good as well, didn't it? 74%.

James Cridland: 49:00

Well, yeah it, 74% slash data. Now, I think that that might be a little bit high given the data that we've seen from Buzzsprout, from other podcast hosts, and John Spurlock is very keen. He says there are about 2,000 podcasts being measured by OP3. He's very keen that you don't look at it for an overall view of the entire industry. But I'm going to do that anyway and I think Extrapolate, extrapolate. Well, it makes the point. I think, from my point of view, it makes the point that basically, those three big apps I mean to be fair, those two big apps, spotify and Apple Podcasts big apps, I mean to be fair, those two big apps, spotify and Apple Podcasts, are still so large and anything that we want to do, it's important to at least think what happens if we can't get Spotify and Apple Podcasts doing that as well, because that's just those two. Spotify and Apple Podcasts are more than 75% of all downloads right now, and you know 1.27%, by the way, for Google Podcasts, 1.17% for Amazon Music, and this is over the last 30 days. Does YouTube.

Sam Sethi: 50:22

Get a mention in there at all.

James Cridland: 50:24

YouTube does. But of course YouTube is different because YouTube mostly is playing its own videos and so therefore isn't listed. In the same way, youtube Music will be listed in here because YouTube Music also plays RSS feeds. It is number 32 in the list at 0.13%, but then, you know, most of the playbacks from YouTube music are actually going to be directly YouTube videos anyway. So I'm not quite sure how much we can, you know, look into that.

James Cridland: 50:59

But yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of data, but I think it's just interesting keeping an eye on this data and reminding ourselves that everybody jumps up and down and says we don't have accurate minute by minute stats for podcast listening. Well, we do, for 75% of all podcast listening, because both Spotify and Apple podcasts will give you that data, because both Spotify and Apple Podcasts will give you that data. If you're wanting demographics data, it might be skewed, but 45% of all of your downloads have demographics data there, because 45% of all of your downloads are coming through Spotify. So actually we've got an awful lot of this data anyway, and I wonder how much we are flailing ourselves saying that we don't have good enough stats when we have minute by minute data for both Apple Podcasts and for Spotify and therefore for 75% of all downloads out there. So perhaps we should stop thinking about that and start focusing on other things that matter a little bit more Indeed.

Sam Sethi: 52:06

One of the things that jumped out at me was Castbox is the biggest independent podcast app, at number four, which was quite surprising.

James Cridland: 52:12

Yes, yes, well, and there's whatever app is still using Apple Core Media, and I mean that's something that at some point it would be lovely to get rid of all of those Apple Core medias because they are still 2.7%. But yes, castbox, the biggest independent, at number four 2.23% currently and Overcast at number five 2.17% and our friends at Pocket Cast at number six with just about 2%. So, yeah, there's an awful lot of fighting for the long tail there.

Sam Sethi: 52:46

Now question for you, James Should apps have a paid service? I mean, is Pocket Cast proving that there is a market for subscriptions for podcast apps?

James Cridland: 52:59

Well, I mean, overcast also has a paid-for service as well, as does Podcast Addict. I'm not so sure about CastBox I've not used it and I can't remember whether or not it does but you know, a developer needs to eat at some point, and whether or not you put adverts in the app, as Podcast Addict does a little bit, or whether or not you do something else, like you know, fountain or Podverse of sharing a little bit of the support which is sent, but developers do need to eat, so you know. However, you end up paying for. It would be an interesting plan. Obviously, you've got open tools like AntennaPod, number 14 in this list, which is a complete open source tool that anybody can download and use on Android. But yeah, I mean, I think we need to work out how these apps end up earning their money, because I think that that's, you know, obviously an important thing.

Sam Sethi: 54:02

One of the things I've started to talk about is podcasting, being a second class digital citizen to music and films and books, because the expectation on the user is that they will pay for music. I wonder whether Apple making their app free and making podcasting free is the reason. Could Apple suddenly turn on a? You have to pay 99 cents for a podcast, like they did with music? Could that change the model so that apps themselves could actually then change the model, Because we're strapped by the very fact that you can't change it because everyone will go oh well, I'll just use Apple then, Because there's always a free version somewhere else to use. Is Apple the reason why we can't actually charge for podcasting?

James Cridland: 55:01

Well, I mean, you know, I don't know, I would say, on the other side, apple have made it very easy for you to charge for a podcast as a creator, if you want to. Apple clearly keeps a chunk of that, nearly a third of that money. So that's Apple's business model. They're not giving that product away for free. I mean you also have to buy an Apple phone as well. Zach will be proud of me. Did you notice? I just called it an Apple phone there.

Sam Sethi: 55:29

Yes, not a toy phone. Yeah, yeah, your Google fandom is slipping.

James Cridland: 55:33

Yeah he'll be proud of me for that. So yeah, so I don't know. I mean, I think there is always something there for a completely free app like Antenapod, which has no advertising in it, which is not there to do anything other than just be a good app. But I think it's also absolutely fair for all of these services, whether it's Spotify, which, of course, is also free if you want to use it that way, you know, I think that's absolutely fine too, and I think it would absolutely harm the industry if we were to start putting paywalls in front of podcasts.

Sam Sethi: 56:10

Yeah, but maybe remove the ads. Anyway, let's move on. We'll never make that decision here right now. Pocketcast we talked about it briefly 7.61, which launched on Android and iOS with super chapters, but the other thing that was announced was they've moved to Podping rather than a WebSub.

James Cridland: 56:29

Oh, have they. I didn't even know that. Where has this information come?

Sam Sethi: 56:35

from.

James Cridland: 56:35

It comes from Ellie directly actually, so yes, the Podping support Podping support already live on our server. Well, there you go. There's a thing I had no idea. I'm imagining that they're still using websharp under the hood as well, but they are supporting both websharp and podping as signals, which makes perfect sense. Well, there you go.

Sam Sethi: 56:56

I'll uh, I'll copy and paste that into a into a newsletter for monday, uh, and we talked a little bit about OSHA. They are adding their transcript service. The tool creates Apple Podcasts compatible transcripts, and transcripts are available in 99 languages, which is quite interesting as well.

James Cridland: 57:15

Yes, and, by the way, Apple Podcasts transcripts aren't available in 99 languages. So therefore, obviously, the question there is going to be what happens for Apple Podcasts if it sees a transcript which is available in, I don't know, Norwegian or Swedish or Scots Gaelic that it doesn't support? Presumably, it just won't appear in Apple Podcasts, whereas it will appear in tools like Podcast Addict or Podcast Guru.

Sam Sethi: 57:50

Now Podcasting 2.0 has a new logo, guy Martin who produced it. Congratulations, james. What are your thoughts on it?

James Cridland: 57:58

Yes, I think it's very smart. I think it's very clever as well in that it's got if you look carefully at it, you can see it's an ear, you can see an RSS icon in it. You can see potentially hints of the Apple Podcasts logo in there as well. But, more to the point, it's built with three characters, it's built with 2.0, if you look at it carefully.

James Cridland: 58:23

So, it's a really nice logo. It's a logo that anyone can use. Podcast Standards Project is, of course, different, but this logo anyone can use. If you are supporting Podcasting 2.0 in some way shape or form or your podcast is, so that's a lovely thing. There's a full website with lots of information about how the whole thing works.

James Cridland: 58:43

My plan for PodNews is to put a little Podcasting 2.0 badge on any podcast that is using a Podcasting 2.0 tag in some way, shape or form, which, to be fair, will be most of them right now, given that transcripts are so popular and given that there are a lot of other support for other tags in there as well. So, yeah, I think it's a really smart, modern looking logo. Listen to me, how old do I sound? It's a modern looking logo, but yes, I think it'll be very nice. It will be on the 2.0 website shortly. There is a change which has been already put forward, but I'm not brave enough to press the button that says go and rebuild this entire website. I'm leaving that to Daniel, and I think Daniel is just making sure that everything is as correct as he wants it to be prior to it going live.

Sam Sethi: 59:48

Excellent. So where were you, grandad, when the new logo came out? Well, let me tell you children yes, there you go Now. Production tool Alitu now includes magic filters. What are magic filters, james?

James Cridland: 1:00:02

They get rid of ums, errs, filler words and long silences. It's a bit like what Descript has done and that's um, completely automatic, uh, which is very nice. They've also added video calling so you can see your guest. It doesn't record the video yet, but, um, if you're uh just having a conversation, then um, uh, it'll record the audio, but at least you can see your guest now, which is nice. And CasterPod has released a new version, version 1.11. That's a bag of Richards, and CasterPod is supporting transcripts and support for the podcast trailer tag.

James Cridland: 1:00:39

Not a moment too soon so far as I'm concerned. So that's all good news. Activitypub is um, dave and Adam are getting very, very excited by. I tell you what. As soon as I can actually understand what it is that I should be doing, I will be. I will be, um, trying to get involved in activity pub as much as I can. I still don't really understand it, other than everybody is saying activity pub, activity pub, activity pub, um, so, uh, yeah, so I'm looking forward to understanding it a little bit more. But Podfriend, peertube, antennapod, working on Activity Pub things.

Sam Sethi: 1:01:18

They're already yeah, they're already putting out comments and zaps into the social interact tag via the activity pub protocol. So that's pretty good. Stephen Crader created a little tool called Podcast AP, which basically allows you to follow a podcast in the activity pub. It's basically building on Dave Jones's original work, but it's creating a nice UI so you can import an OPML if you want and you can search for podcasts, music feeds, and then when you follow them in your AP client, your activity pub client, you'll then get a notification if there's a new episode or there's a new music track or whatever.

Sam Sethi: 1:02:00

So the fundamental thing, james, is that you have to not think of ActivityPub so much as a social network, as more of a messaging backbone. So it has an inbox and outbox metaphor. So the outbox and inbox is really where messages get sent to. So when you look at what Dave Jones has done, he's basically posting to your inbox in your activity pub saying oh yes, there's a new episode of Pod News Daily, for example. And when he is sending that, it's basically a verb called follow that you've connected to. That's the activity stream verb and it comes from his outbox because he's getting a notification via pod ping to say that the episode has been updated. So his outbox sends you a message to your inbox to tell you that something's happened, and that's all it is.

James Cridland: 1:02:56

It's an inbox outbox messaging backbone and that's what activity pub is right, I'm still none the I'm still none the wiser in terms of how you could use it for podcasting.

James Cridland: 1:03:07

It did strike me that if you were going to use this as a tool to store where your podcast subscriptions are so that other people can see what podcast you're subscribed to but, more to the point, you can actually. You know, other people can also jump in and go oh, I wonder what Adam's listening to now, or I wonder what Sam's listening to now. It struck me that that is also a thing that could essentially store all of the shows that you have listened to and how far you got through them and how far you got through them, which you could then essentially just flick between different podcast apps, and it would know exactly what you subscribe to, where you'd got to in each specific show, and so you, as true fans, don't need to keep massive, great big, you know databases anymore, because you could literally, just, for every user, just read that information off their activity pub um information somehow. But I'm not quite sure how that bit works either okay, so let's take a step back, could it?

James Cridland: 1:04:14

could it actually do that?

Sam Sethi: 1:04:16

yes, it could, I don't think it will do that, or I don't think the apps will want it to do that, because, fundamentally, giving away all the app data. But let me step it back for a second. So you play a podcast, right, that's a signal. And I follow you on Activity, pub Mastodon, let's say, now, that can then be published by you. So the app will, with your permission, publish that from the app's outbox your activity to your inbox in Modon, right? So it says james has now played, don't know, uh, pod news weekly, uh, and you can say how long the time he's played it. Maybe you gave some value, so you actually paid some sats or whatever it may be. All of that is a signal. I follow you on mastodon. Oh right, james has boosted. Right, let me go and have a look and I can have a link back to it.

Sam Sethi: 1:05:10

So in step one, basically, what we want to do is create a number of activity verbs in apps. We all have to agree on that. It's like a namespace, and then we will then say, right, you can publish all of these, some of these, none of these. It depends on the user, but it's a signal to people who follow you of what you're doing. So that's step one. Step two is that we have the creator, the podcaster, use the social interact tag as the central repository for where they want all the comments for that show or episode to be placed, where they want all the comments for that show or episode to be placed. Now I can make a boost in True Fans and you can make a boost in Fountain while we listen to the same podcast episode. They all appear in the social interact tag and a bit like a pod ping, but it's not that the other apps can then listen to that social interact tag location in the ActivityPod client and pull back other comments that aren't from their app, ergo cross app comments.

Sam Sethi: 1:06:10

So there's a number of steps. One, the first step, really is just to say look, we want to put out a signal that says somebody's doing something in a podcast app who I follow. I'm interested in that and therefore I might then click on a link and go and do the same thing and listen to that podcast as well. So it's a way of trying to get a signal out of apps to a social network, in effect, where I can then come back and see something. So that's what step one is. And step two, then, is towards cross-app comments. But it can be more. It could be ratings, it could be reviews, it could be follows, it could be many other verbs, not just a simple. You know, somebody's made a comment on one app and somebody's made the same or similar comment for that episode on another app.

James Cridland: 1:06:55

Yeah Gosh. Well, there you go. It's clearly going to be a thing as soon as anybody, can you know, I'm just, I'm, you know, really interested in following it. Anybody, can you know? I'm just, I'm, you know, really interested in following it. At the moment, my social interact tag points to my own Mastodon server and points to a post that I put there automatically every single time. But it strikes me that the activity pub thing that Dave has been working on is completely automatic and I mean, and I mean could link to uh, I could link to that automatically as well. So I don't really know what it is that I should be linking to. Um, probably my own.

Sam Sethi: 1:07:34

but uh, the two are separate. One is one is telling you or telling people who want to follow your show that there's an update, that's. That's a verb that I follow. So I want to know if James Cridland updates Pod News Daily and at what time, and I can jump on that and the minute I get that signal. But the other one is you, when you broadcast Pod News Daily as a podcast, I can leave a comment and that could be in your social interact tag as well, and that's all it is. So the two are separate things.

James Cridland: 1:08:06

Okay, well, is this is what I think? This is why it's hurting my head. So I'm looking, I'm looking forward to learning a little bit more.

Sam Sethi: 1:08:12

Um so, and uh see, see what I can do there well, if you're interested, there's a full discussion going to happen on friday night, because I'm on the show with adam and dave ah, yes, yes, well, I will be.

James Cridland: 1:08:24

I will be having a listen as I trundle around the supermarket on Saturday, in that case.

Sam Sethi: 1:08:28

Okay, uh, now the other couple of quick things. Uh, happy birthday to Pixel Fed. It's six years old and PubKit, which I think you will want to get hold of, james, is a testing tool for anyone who wants to create activity, pub andub and ActivityStream services. So it's free and it just came out yesterday, so that'll be quite interesting to play with. And I'm guessing that none of this ActivityPub stuff makes the cut, so it doesn't really matter.

James Cridland: 1:08:56

Moving on, who knows, it might make the cut.

Sam Sethi: 1:09:02

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath on this one Right now. Moving moving on a side job linked posted on mastodon that you can get the rss feed for a specific youtube channel from a lesser known endpoint, um. So I've put that in there, um, and also he said he put in there. I've not validated the feed, but it sounds like you have. Yeah, I checked and it wasn't a fully formed feed. I don't think it's a good source for their podcast, but maybe some man in the middle transformation could improve it, like James. So I think he's looking at you, james, for some saviour work to be done on that.

James Cridland: 1:09:38

Well, I'll tell you about that particular, the particular RSS feed. So, looking at it, I mean A it's not an RSS feed, so let's get that out of the way. It doesn't have an item tag in it. It's got an entry tag. It doesn't have a channel tag. It's not an RSS feed, but it is a feed which is in XML, and that feed, which is in XML, doesn't contain the enclosure tag, so obviously you can't download the audio.

James Cridland: 1:10:10

One of the things it does do is it contains view numbers, which is nice. It contains ratings as well, so you can actually pull the ratings of each individual show from there. It includes the descriptions and the you know artwork and all that kind of stuff too, and obviously links to the actual video as well. So I mean, it's usable to an extent in terms of how it might work, seems to be for channels only, so I'm wondering whether or not it works for a playlist rather than for a channel, because it would be rather more useful if it worked as a playlist. That said, you can't actually see the main Pod News playlist in YouTube anymore for some reason, and I don't know why. I'm sure there's a good reason for that, but yes, so I mean it's certainly worth a peek at, but I'm not quite sure how you could use it as an RSS feed for a podcast app, because there's no media there to actually play Right.

Sam Sethi: 1:11:25

Oh well, I just thought it was a nice little bit of a find from Cy Jobling, but maybe it's just a bit of XML lying around in YouTube.

James Cridland: 1:11:35

I mean, you know it's some useful XML, you know. So from that point of view that's kind of handy. I'm confused as to why the Pod News Daily isn't available in our own YouTube channel and the Pod News Weekly Review is but not the Pod News Daily. For some reason that's not marked as a podcast in there, even though it is. So who knows what's going on and, frankly, does anybody care?

Sam Sethi: 1:12:04

Yes, Moving on then, podcast app for those who love the terminal window that might be you, james Tailcast is a free download using Rust. There you go.

James Cridland: 1:12:18

Yes, it's madness. And Odyssey is doing some clever things with AI. They've partnered with Eleven Labs to make them lots of synthetic voices, so they don't have to pay DJs anymore. And they've partnered with Eleven Labs to make them lots of synthetic voices, so they don't have to pay DJs anymore. And they've partnered with a company called Super Hi-Fi which will play all of the songs for them, so they don't have to pay any music directors anymore. So hooray for Odyssey Microphones. Tons of new microphones happening. You're very excited, I think, about the new Rode Interview Pro microphone.

Sam Sethi: 1:12:51

Well, I'm not because I'm not going to buy one, but I like the idea because it uses the wireless GoPros, so the ones that I've got, the little square ones, if you wanted to have a handheld microphone that worked while you're roaming. This is now the new mic and it basically pairs up with the little square road wireless mics. And also, if you want, for some strange reason, if you want, you can also carry your roadcaster pro 2 or duo and link a wireless mic to it as well, so I can see where it fits in in the roster. If somebody wants to do interviews with a mic and just hand a mic forward and not have to hand their little square wireless GoPro to someone's lapel, then it's quite a nice little tool.

James Cridland: 1:13:39

Yeah, I'm sure that we will be seeing it for TV news cameras and camera teams and those sorts of people. I'm sure that we'll see it on screen, where I can see that microphone being used, a wireless mic that also happens to record as well. Well, great, that looks like a really good plan.

Sam Sethi: 1:13:57

The other thing that they did bring out with there was some nice rigs. So for your iPhone, you can now, if you've got a magnetic case, um, I think the iphone 12 plus. So yours, james yes, mine does you can attach. You can attach this new uh road uh frame to the back and then you can put your wireless go pros on the back and other bits and pieces, so it looks very nice. I mean again, it's a nice way of putting all your kit around your iPhone and being able to carry it very easy.

James Cridland: 1:14:27

Yeah, it looks very good. You can't do that with those toy Android phones, can you? No, you've changed, james.

Sam Sethi: 1:14:33

No more Google YouTube. Oh, you've changed.

James Cridland: 1:14:38

Shure have released the MV7 Plus microphone, which is much the same as the MV7 that I normally use, except it's got a USB-C connection and a fancier LED display, which is much the same as the MV7 that I normally use, except it's got a USB-C connection and a fancier LED display, which is nice. And Lewitt we covered this yesterday Lewitt has a fancy microphone called the Ray microphone and, in case you've wondered what it sounds like, it sounds like this because I'm using one right now and what it does, sam, which is very clever. It's got two different functions on it. One of the functions is it's got a mute thing so that if you are a little bit further away from the microphone, then instead of it sounding awful, it will just mute you completely, so you can just lean to one side and cough if you want and it will just automatically mute. But also, I mean the more important thing is it's got this LiDAR thing in. It's got a laser inside it. It's got a freaking laser inside it and what it does is that it works out how far you are away from the microphone.

James Cridland: 1:15:38

A typical microphone will have proximity effect and proximity effect is when you're very close to the microphone, everything all becomes sounding very bassy and very you know you can tell that you're really close to the microphone, whereas this has got none of that, because if you're nice and close to the microphone, as I am right now, then it knows that and it applies EQ and other things to fix that.

James Cridland: 1:16:05

But if I was to go back, if I was to go back a whole arm's length away from this microphone, then what you'll notice is that it sounds a little bit more echoey because I'm in a very untreated room, but it still sounds pretty good. It's upped the volume, it's changed the EQ, it's changed the way that it works and you know, as a microphone it's much more forgiving about how close you are to the mic or how far away you are from the mic than most microphones are. And I, as I said in my review that I posted yesterday, I said that this is the perfect microphone for a guest. Yesterday I said that this is the perfect microphone for a guest. If you've got a guest that doesn't understand how to use a microphone and is, you know, a bit frustrated about always having to stay the right distance away from a microphone which most people don't do then this is a great microphone for that, because this actually deals with all of that completely automatically, so it's a nice tool.

Sam Sethi: 1:17:03

I quite like it. How many times when I was doing radio with guests and you'd be like giving them little hand signals to get closer because they start off nervous. So they lean into the mic, but as they get more comfortable they sit back in the chair and eventually just disappear off the radio and you go. No, no, come back, come back.

James Cridland: 1:17:21

Yeah, yeah, whereas this, you know, eventually you can. You can lean back as far as you like and it doesn't change the audio particularly much. The only time when it fails is if you start waving your hands around so much that your hands get in front of the sensor and then that messes everything up completely. But you know, accepting that it's a very cool thing, so it's worth a look. I think $349 is the price. They haven't confirmed that with me, but that's what I saw on another review that I watched, so I think that's the price. The guy that I was watching said I think this is actually worth £3,500. I'm not entirely convinced it's worth that, but I do think it's very unusual. As I said in my review, it's very unusual for a microphone to have a new idea in it, and this microphone very clearly has a new idea in it, and that new idea is this closeness thing which they've called aura. So it's very cool, james, ok here's the acid test.

Sam Sethi: 1:18:25

Then Will you stick with it or will you switch back to your Shure?

James Cridland: 1:18:29

If you could keep both, Well, and I believe that these normally when you're sent a microphone, just for total transparency normally when you're sent a microphone they're yours to keep. So I now have quite the collection of microphones so I'm doubtless we'll be keeping this. So if I could keep both of them. I bought the Shure. I would probably go back to the Shure, if only because it's got inbuilt compression and you know I'm having to run this through a Focusrite box and all of the fiddling around that happens from that. But having said that, you know we'll see. I'm using this for the next couple of weeks anyway, so we'll see how it works.

Sam Sethi: 1:19:11

Now, now that you've got a new Apple phone, I'm sure you've upgraded to 17.5 beta 2, James, haven't you?

James Cridland: 1:19:17

I mean you are joking. I know that you're joking, but of course I have, because that came out yesterday morning my time and, yes, absolutely, it's already been updated. I've got no idea what it's got in it. You're probably going to tell me it's got all kinds of exciting things in there no, not a lot, but because you're not in the European Union.

Sam Sethi: 1:19:38

But if you were in the European Union, you'll be able to now download apps directly from other websites. You'll be able to use alternative app stores. I think I saw one yesterday which had the sum total of two apps in it, but that was it. It was exciting. You could go to their app store and download one of two apps. But hey, it's a start.

Speaker 2: 1:19:58

Boostergram, boostergram, corner, corner, corner On the Pod News Weekly Review.

James Cridland: 1:20:05

Yes, it's our favourite time of the week, sam, and I share all of the boosts and stuff that you send us. So please do. Weeklypodnewsnet is where you can share your fiat currency with your credit card or just press the boost button. That will be a good thing. We have had some boosts, sam. I know that you haven't put any onto the form here, oops, but we have had some. So thank you to Dwev, who is now. I should know what Dwev's real name is, because he's the man Guy Martin, yes, guy Martin. Indeed, he's the man that invented the podcasting 2.0 logo. Anyway, 3,500 sats from Castamatic OPML is great for data portability, especially for an app sampler like me. I'd love to see more support for it. Opml, yes, it's the future. Anyway, mike Dell, 1,701 sats that must be a special numerology number. Can't be bothered to read it. Anyway, mike, thank you, customatic, keep doing what you're doing. He says that's to the Pod News Daily, talking about Hot Pod going away. What other boostergrams have we had?

Sam Sethi: 1:21:16

One thousand sats from RW Nash saying have you ever had Adam Curry or John C Dvorak on the show? Never, ever would have John C Dvorak on the show. Never, ever would have John C Dvorak on the show. Oh, I quite like John C Dvorak. No, he might be Adam Curry's best mate. I'm sorry.

James Cridland: 1:21:34

He gets no spam.

Sam Sethi: 1:21:35

He gets no love either.

James Cridland: 1:21:38

That, by the way, he gets no spam is only for listeners to Buzz Out Loud from CNET about 15 years ago. Only them. Only they would have understood it. Buzz Out Loud and also Twit as well, which of course he used to be on an awful lot. No, I would be up for having John C Dvorak.

Sam Sethi: 1:21:58

I'm not quite sure what he would add I look forward to your interview with John then.

James Cridland: 1:22:02

Yes, and obviously Adam Currie. We've had Adam on this show before, haven't we?

Sam Sethi: 1:22:06

He has an open invite at any time he wants to come on this show, so that's never a problem. It's actually asking Adam to come on the show, but yes, he has an open invite. So, no, not had John, but we have had Adam. Who else?

James Cridland: 1:22:22

James Guy Martin 2000 Sats from Castomatic. Go podcasting 2.0 logo. I see what you did there. Thank you for that Again to the Pod News Daily Mike Dell 1,000 sats Test boost from Fountain. They're always my favourite. Now I have to tell you about that one?

Sam Sethi: 1:22:40

It looks like Todd is going to be paying out sats for driving traffic to his show. So last night I saw a really interesting thread between Oscar and Todd which was along the lines of I want to send more people to my show. How can I do it? I've got a bag full of sats. How can I give you them, oscar, oscar's, like, hmm well, you can give them to me and I'll see what I can do. I can create a voucher maybe, where they then redeem it when they come to your show. So I think there's a really interesting I don't know what you want to call it deal going on between Blueberry and Fountain as to how to drive traffic to Todd's shows.

James Cridland: 1:23:17

Well, it sounds like an excellent plan. I did use Fountain in the past for promoting the Pod News Daily. Actually, and of the many different ways that I've looked into doing this, it was the most successful. I'll absolutely say that it got a lot of plays. It got a lot of exciting boosts back as well, because I think they recognise that they get paid when they listen to a show which has been promoted in that way and, yes, I thought it was a good thing. I am an advisor for Fountain, but I would have given that a go even if I wasn't. So, yeah, no, I think that was a pretty good thing. So, yes, there's a thing.

Sam Sethi: 1:23:56

I think if you get paid, people will do it.

James Cridland: 1:23:59

And two more messages. Dave Jones, 5,150 sats, cast-o-matic Rich guy starts a podcast network Yawn, which could have been for this week's show.

Sam Sethi: 1:24:10

Oh, I was going to say I was going to say we look forward to the same boost for next week.

James Cridland: 1:24:16

Dave as well. Yes, exactly Exactly. And Andrew Grumet a row of ducks 2222. Sats Love the AI guest appearance. Perhaps Sam could interview them in a future episode. No, sats love the ai guest appearance. Perhaps sam could interview them in a future episode. No, that is not going to happen. Um and uh, as you may have noticed, sam, in the middle of all of that, um, six sats from podcasting 2.0, from the uh ipfs uh podcast, ipfs thing. Um, giving me a six sat share in the podcasting 2.0 show via IPFS podcasting.

Sam Sethi: 1:24:49

Don't knock it, James. Don't knock it. You never know. Those six sats in the future could be worth a lot of money.

James Cridland: 1:24:53

It's all good, I mean the doubling, or is it the doubling, the halving, the great doubling, the great halving? Yes, it's on the way. I've got no idea. So what's happened for you this week, Sam?

Sam Sethi: 1:25:03

Just a couple of things I've been reading. So Evan Prodomo wrote a nice post called the Responses to Rabble on ActivityPub. Somebody was knocking all the things that they thought was wrong with ActivityPub and Evan went and knocked them down Again. Have a look. It's on Evan's. I think it's on his sub stack.

James Cridland: 1:25:25

It's on his own blog, of course, evanmpme, yes, I must read his book. Is his book out? No September.

Sam Sethi: 1:25:36

You can read chapters of it on O'Reilly. But yeah, no, not out until September.

James Cridland: 1:25:42

I should really do that.

Sam Sethi: 1:25:43

And then Evo wrote Unlocking the Potential of Fiction Podcasts, which I thought was very good, and If you Love Podcasts, dump Spotify, yes. So Alex Sojong wrote that that was quite an interesting read.

James Cridland: 1:25:57

Yes, I thought it was quite an interesting read. It would have been a good read a year ago, but pretty well all of his arguments have gone away. In that he's saying that nobody at Spotify likes RSS and everything's exclusive. I mean, that was the case a year ago. It's not the case now. So yeah, I wasn't such a fan of that article, but still there we are Worth a read.

Sam Sethi: 1:26:21

And then Ian Forrester from Tech Grumps had a little mention for you, james, in his podcast this week. It's a proposal for labelling if a transcript is AI generated or human checked, which I think is one of your proposals. Yes, yes.

James Cridland: 1:26:36

And I know that that is a proposal that Apple are quite keen in doing as well. Doing as well, they want to be able to show whether or not a podcast transcript has actually had any human editing in there or not. So, yes, I think that that would be a good plan. So what's happened for you, james?

James Cridland: 1:26:57

I went to a show yesterday which was very weird. It was a show which was put together Basically. They played lots of little clips from big historical things on the radio over the last 100 years and they accompanied it with music, and so they had people on stage and they were running through this video and the people on stage were playing the music. It was very clever and, yes, very, very much enjoyed that. And I discover, when I came home after it, I discover that there's actually an album. It's a 99 track album, it's on Apple Music and it's basically the show that we watched and they were playing. You know they were just doing the album live. If you can follow me on Mastodon then you'll find all of the details of how that works. But that was quite fun for the audio nerd, so I rather enjoyed that.

Sam Sethi: 1:27:56

Oh, and I should just mention very quickly, I was on Barry Lubret's podcast called About Podcasting, so if you want to find that one, and I was also on Mark Asquith's podcast called In and Around Podcasting, so if you want to find that one, and I was also on Mark Asquith's podcast called In and Around Podcasting, so if you fancy hearing more of me or less of me, well, I wouldn't listen to those. If you fancy hearing more, then check those out.

James Cridland: 1:28:15

And that's it for this week. Thank you so much to our many guests, especially Sean and Lizzie and Jeremy. You can also listen to the Pod News Daily, of course. Find that wherever you got this podcast and subscribe to the Pod News newsletter for more of these stories and everything else.

Sam Sethi: 1:28:31

podnewsnet, you can give feedback to James and I by sending the show a boostgram. If your podcast app doesn't support Boost, then grab a new app from podcasting2.org. Forward slash apps.

James Cridland: 1:28:42

Our music is from Studio Dragonfly, we use Clean Feed for our remote recording, our voiceover is Sheila Dee and we're hosted and sponsored by Buzzsprout Podcast hosting made easy.

Speaker 2: 1:28:54

Get updated every day. Subscribe to our newsletter at podnewsnet.

James Cridland: 1:29:00

Tell your friends and grow the show.

Sean Howard: 1:29:02

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Speaker 2: 1:29:04

Weekly Review will return next week. Keep listening.