James Cridland: 0:00

It's Friday, the 27th of January, 2023. The last word in podcasting news. This is the Pod News Weekly review with James k Cridlin and Sam Sethy. I'm James k Cridlin, the editor of Pod

Sam Sethi: 0:15

News. And I'm Sam Sethy, the founder and CEO of Pod Fans and the host of Sam Talks

James Cridland: 0:20

Technology in the chapters today. It's a New Dawn at Spotify. See what we did there. Uh, we talk about Buzz Sprouts subscriptions, and is the number of new podcasts really 80% down? Plus we've got Jack Davenport from Gold Hangar Podcasts to talk about working on some of the biggest podcasts in the. This podcast is sponsored and hosted by Buzz Sprout. Last week, 4,105 people started a podcast with Buzz Sprout podcast hosting made easy with powerful tools and remarkable customer support. And now you can turn your listeners into supporters with Buzz Sprout subscriptions. See how it works today@weekly.podnews.net, and become a power supporter from your daily newsletter, the Pod News Weekly review.

Sam Sethi: 1:09

So James, let's kick off this week. Spotify's cut its staff. Um, not unexpected. I think the title of this piece has got to be, it's a New Dawn, it's a new day, it's a new life. Daniel Eck is feeling good and that is a problem. Uh, yes. Poor Daniel. He actually put out a note, uh, telling the staff that 6% of its workforce, approximately 600 jobs would be cut. Um, his key statement in it that I picked out was, uh, he was too ambitious is what he said. I think that may be an understatement. He's had a lot of backlash I've seen because in that same statement, he went, I'm sorry, we've got rid of 600 people, but hey, I've got a great new role within the company. I'm gonna be doing great things. And I think the mixed messages that Daniel put out were not taken down very well. So what was your sense? 6%. Hey, James, was it higher or lower than what you thought?

James Cridland: 2:04

Yeah, I mean, 6% of their workforce, um, 588 jobs, if you look at, uh, some of the numbers that I've seen coming out. But, um, the, I mean the other sort of side of that is that they've also, uh, if you visit the Spotify jobs website, there are no jobs at Spotify anymore unless you want to be an intern there. All of the other jobs have gone and there used to be literally hundreds of jobs there. Uh, so that's gone. I mean, you know, from just looking at the, the numbers then, uh, yeah, it, it's, it's, um, I mean, you've worked out, haven't you? The. Average annual salary at Spotify? What's that? Yeah,

Sam Sethi: 2:42

so the average annual Spotify, so they went from 6,600 employees to over 9,000 employees this last year. And the average salary for a Spotify employees, $153,543. Um, they spent nice over 1 billion US dollars on wages and salaries in 2021, according to the s e c filings. Um, they increased their staff by over 1000 in the same time. And yeah, it, they reckoned by the end of Q3 2022, the one that just passed, they were at a whopping 9,808 people. Um, yeah, they, they've added 3000. On top of the 1000 they did in 21 in 22. So they've been growing massively. But this layoff is gonna cost Spotify according to them, 38 million to pay off everyone to leave.

James Cridland: 3:38

Yeah. Which is, uh, quite a thing. We know that there are layoffs in both pod sites and chartable. Now, I have to say, that probably makes a bit of sense because from what I understand, those companies were still basically running as if they were independent companies within, uh, Spotify. So there was lots of duplicated RO roles and stuff like that. So I, I, I guess you would expect. A little bit of that. Um, but um, you know, I do know some people, they haven't yet confirmed to me that they have gone, although I've been told that they have gone. And so, you know, it's, um, difficult if you are, uh, one of those, uh, affected. Uh, of course. And if you are affected, then obviously, um, POD News would love to sing your praises to 25,000 people that get our newsletter every single day. You can email editor pod news.net, send us your updated LinkedIn link and tell us what sort of role that you're looking for and we will, uh, get you into the next, uh, newsletter. Of

Sam Sethi: 4:34

course, one of the other surprising things I found when looking around was not only was there annual wage bill now at 1.5 billion, but they were spending over 1 billion a quarter on operating expenses, which is mental. Part of that, I have to say is, uh, a whopping 9 million, nearly 10 million a year was paid to do an ostro. That was her. Salary in the filings. That is crazy. She reminds me of Terry Sim at Yahoo, somebody who's got great ideas to bring in content, but actually operationally, I dunno what she

James Cridland: 5:11

was doing. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think she was, um, I mean clearly well known, well, uh, regarded by people in the content, uh, sphere. Uh, uh, I mean obviously she's srf now. That was going to be my, uh, my headline, Ostroff . But I decided, I bet not. Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, you know, she, she's clearly the darling of the Hollywood reporter and variety and all of that stuff. Um, you know, and clearly, uh, and and a sensible amount of money. Gosh. Um, you know, from, uh, I have to say, so I'm, I'm, I'm gonna sort of put myself, uh, on a limb here. I think that there are two stories going on here. Okay. There's one story, which is, um, that, uh, you know, Spotify, um, has been spending an awful lot and, you know, and, and they've been spending to accumulate in the, in the future. And, um, I, I'm not sure that it's entirely fair this, because I think the, I mean, they've made over a billion dollars worth of investment in podcasting that has given the market leadership in many countries, it's been wildly successful for Spotify in terms of ad sales and revenue. It's given the more users as well. I mean, you know, Joe Rogan has clearly paid its way 200 million. Can I just say that? It's

Sam Sethi: 6:29

just breakeven that hasn't paid it, it only broke even in their advertising revenue,

James Cridland: 6:34

even if it's broken even, it's, uh, got them more users. It's got them more, um, visibility. It's, um, you know, as I say, given the market. Leadership. I think the difference here and, and you know more about the stock market than I do, but to me, um, to me it's just a change of fashion from the stock market. So last year interest rates were really low. and the way that you showed the stock market that you were a good company is that you'd borrow and you'd invest in future growth. And the stock market would shout at you if you just put your cash into a savings account and you just had cash in there. Whereas now, of course, interest rates much higher and all of a sudden the stock market has turned around and said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stop spending money, stop, stop, uh, investing in future growth. Instead, we want profit and we want profit today, and we want you to put that profit into your savings account. It's a, it's, it's a, it's a complete u-turn from the stock market. And so what I think we are seeing here is Spotify and other companies who are just doing what the stock market have been, have been asking them to, last year they asked to invest for future growth, which they did this year. They've been told, no, no, no, stop that. Can't spending be more profitable. And so I think to a degree, this isn't a failure by Spotify. I don't think that Spotify's a particularly badly run company, although, um, you know, clearly other people do. I don't think it's a, uh, certainly isn't a problem with podcasting. And podcasting is still growing. Podcasting isn't in decline, and revenue for podcasting is still growing. I think it's a failure with the stock market. And I think, you know, actually, if you were to have a look at the stock market, I think the stock market is the worst influence on mankind that we currently have on this planet because it's people that frankly, you know, are paid an inordinate amount of money who are basically following fashions and trends. It was the fashion last year to spend money to accumulate for long-term growth. It's the fashion this year. Um, to, uh, just earn short term profit and screw the people who are working for you, uh, instead just, you know, get rid of all of those people and, um, and, you know, do what we want because we are the stock market. I, I, I dunno whether that's going slightly overboard. No. Uh, Sam, but that's, that's my thoughts on it. No,

Sam Sethi: 8:52

I mean, we, we, I'll try and stick this to podcasting rather than going on to the economic theory , but, um, Tom Friedman, Tom Friedman in the seventies was the man to blame. He basically changed corporate life from, uh, looking after staff and, uh, reinvesting profits into. Turning the model around to shareholder value as the primary driver of corporate growth. Mm-hmm.. And at that point, everything else then fell away. So cutting staff, making sure that you maximize profits, returns to shareholders. That was the whole ethos behind Friedman. And once that kicked in and Thatcher and Reagan drove that very hard, um, we saw globalization, we saw all of that fall, and that whole model needs to change. But that won't change overnight. And we, we are just seeing that same repeat, rinse, repeat. So we're just gonna cut people now, get profitability, then grow, then take on more people to grow, then cut and then. Re rinse, repeat. Again, as I say, the model isn't changing until Friedman's economic model changes, but that's a bigger conversation. Yeah. But going back to Spotify, mm. One of the things that they ha, you know, irrelevant of the investment they've made and the growth they tried to achieve, mm, profits were down by 66%. Now, whatever you do, the stock market or anyone else in any corporate company, if you've dropped 66% of your profit, yes, the market cap fell from I think 85 million to 15 or something like that. But, you know, at the end of the day, the market's reflecting that, the fact that, you know, we said right at the beginning, Daniel Eck, in his own words, said he was too ambitious. Um, and I think paying Joe Rogan 200 million, I mean, that is a crazy thing when all your, our efforts, uh, you generate only 200 million euro in advertising as a result of all of those exclusives. So, Yes. Maybe they just bit off a little bit more than they could chew.

James Cridland: 10:52

I don't know. Yeah, and I think it'll be interesting to see what happens now because Dawn Ostro is not being replaced. Her duties are being well taken up by existing management, and Daniel X says mostly Alex Norstrom. Now, Alex Norstrom is not a content person. He is not a friend of the stars. He is not ex of, um, N B C or Hulu or wherever. Dawn Ostro, uh, came from. Um, he's a, he's a geek. You know, he's, he's, you know, he's not, he's not a content person. And I think that's gonna be interesting. So he is looking after licensing. Also looking after content. Those are two very different things. Um, licensing, having those long and complicated conversations with the record companies, uh, in Spotify's case is a very different conversation to, uh, should we be buying this particular podcast? You know, um, is Ashley Flowers' podcast for us? You know, how about Tony and Ryan's podcast? All that kind of stuff is a very different conversation. So I'm fascinated to see how quickly Alex Norstrom gets taken back off content and how quickly they get a brand new content person to end up driving that part of the business forward. Yeah,

Sam Sethi: 12:10

I mean, apart from increasing staff costs and spending madly on operating costs, one of the other criticisms that, uh, a lot of people are placing at Daniel X's feet is that they never. Increased the fixed fee, flat fee for using Spotify. Um, there's many of people who would say they should move to a variable rate, um, but they just haven't got the mechanism or model to do that. I mean, you know, if Adam was listening to this, now I'm sure he's going to industrial complexes falling. And it is in some ways because the problem that Spotify's got is that it can't move that needle. It hasn't moved the needle for, well, the best part of a decade from 9 99. And if they can't move that needle up, but their royalty costs and their operating costs and their marketing costs are going through the roof, then all you're doing is. Obviously shrink or, uh, reduce your profit margins. And so one of the big things that people are saying when I've been reading around is that why have they not increased? I mean, even Netflix increased, I think it was 20 times they increased Okay. Micro increments, but they've increased their, um, Subscription rates. What is Spotify doing? They've kept the rate flat. Yeah. While every other cost has gone through the roof.

James Cridland: 13:28

But the difference, I suppose, in the Spotify world is that Spotify is paying its big content partners, the record companies, a percentage of their revenue. So actually if they put their money up, Then they make no more money. The, uh, you know, they make no more profit because the, the record companies as, as I understand it, just get a, uh, a flat percentage of the revenue that comes into, uh, Spotify. There's a bit of a difference in terms of the free listeners, but certainly in terms of the premium listeners. Um, so, so it it, it's a weird business. Actually quite a lot of their, uh, profit margin is completely out of their hands because it's, you know, it's in, it's in the contract. Um, and you've got, uh, their main competitors are, um, Google and Apple, uh, apple Music, and Google's YouTube music. Um, those are their main competitors and neither of those need worry about whether or not their music services are profitable, because at the end of the day, they're hidden away in all of the other things that those large companies do. Um, whereas of course for, for Spotify, it's the only thing they do is run a music service. So I, uh, you know, there, there's, there's that sort of thing, uh, there as well. So, um, you know, in terms of, I mean, uh, you know, the, the podcasting thing was interesting because, because podcasting would be a different way of earning revenue, which. The initial conversations I gathered went was this is money that we are earning not from music, therefore music, uh, companies, you don't get any of it. Um, and this was a conversation that did not go down very well at all with the record companies , who basically said, now we are just gonna pull all of our stuff. if you try, if you try keeping, keeping that, you know, uh, apart. So yeah. So you ended up with, um, you know, that, that sort of conversation there of uh, no, you know, even the money that Spotify earns from podcasting, certainly at, at the start, and it still may even be the case, the money that Spotify earned from podcasting still gets divvied up with. The record companies, which is the weirdest state of, you know, uh, of, of, of, uh, play. So, you know, I mean, why should Taylor Swift get a cop, get, get a, a percentage of Joe Rogan's ad sales? I mean, that's just like a really weird That is, that is messed

Sam Sethi: 16:01

up. Really weird. That's the case. That is messed up. Yeah. So one of the other things they're, they, they're looking at is new revenue streams. One of those is gonna be the subscriptions charging 5%. When is that due to come out or is that like Spotify? Hi-fi announcement. Never are gonna appear. Well,

James Cridland: 16:16

um, yeah, so this is if you are launching something like Buzz Sprouts subscriptions, which will go on and talk about a little bit later on. So you are looking. Earn, um, money from your audience as a podcaster. Um, they launched this, um, what, last year or the year before? The year before, I think. And, uh, what they said is, it's completely free. We're not gonna charge you anything for this until January, 2023, after which it's going to cost 5%. So Spotify would keep 5%, presumably 5% plus payment charges, but 5% of your, um, of your income now. Hasn't happened for a start. Secondly, I have contacted Spotify's press office and I've said, you know, given that this, uh, cost is, is just around the corner, it'd be really good to be telling some good news stories around subscriptions on Spotify. Um, you must have some good, um, uh, who you've been working with, you know, any chance that I can talk to any of. Absolute silence. Not heard a thing back from Spotify. Wonder why that might be. But of course, there's a problem with, um, any incremental revenue inside the Spotify app, and that's that Apple and Google will both take their 30%, um, or 15%, um, fee. Um, and so, you know, they've got a problem there. Um, and again, it's not a problem that, uh, apple Podcasts has, at least on the Apple platform. It's not a problem that Apple music has . So again, it's a problem that, uh, Spotify uniquely has there. Hang on a

Sam Sethi: 17:57

minute. Yeah. So the record companies get a cut of the podcasting pie and Apple and Google get a cut of the podcasting pie. Wow. No wonder Spotify struggles to make money.

James Cridland: 18:08

Well, I mean, I don't know. So I, well, apple would, only, apple and Google would only get a percentage of the pie if Spotify was selling subscriptions through their app, which they don't, they, you end up having to buy a subscription to Spotify, either premium subscription or a subscription to a podcast, uh, by going and visiting the Spotify website. So it kicks you out in much the same way as, um, as audiobooks. So it kicks you out. You have to go, you have to do it through a website. It's a really, you know, nasty experience. Um, but it gets rid of, you know, it doesn't then, then matter about the Apple or Google, um, tax, um, uh, app tax of 30%. So, um, yeah, but they could be. If they streamlined it and made everything work flawlessly within the app, they could, they could end up having to pay that additional 30%, which is um, no good, really. So they've got that, you know, as an issue. I think.

Sam Sethi: 19:06

So in summary, James, who's in charge of Spotify podcasting now,. James Cridland: Well, uh, well, a podcasting within Spotify? Alex Norstrom, apparently, but then he's in charge of all content, uh, including one of the music and the audio books and everything else as well. So, um, good luck on that. Um, there are still people in charge of, um, anchor and in charge of, um, you know, the pod sites and, uh, megaphone and all of that stuff. Um, so there are, you know, people working on that kind of, uh, side of it as well. But in terms of who's in charge of podcast strategy from a content point of view, I mean, Alex Norstrom is, is, yeah, is, is, is the person, but he's clearly not the person, is he? So who is in charge? Daniel, if you're listening, spot Flick is available for sales. Just thought I'd put it out there. It's still open for sound spot. flick.com. Yeah, here it comes.. The merger of Netflix. That's my big one. That's the, that's the retirement fund mate. That's the one I'm banking on. Yeah.

James Cridland: 20:06

Uh, now it's not just, uh, Spotify, is it? Uh, uh, audio workers have been laid off by Vox Media. Uh, according to Hotpod, which is owned by Vox Media, uh, the team producing cover story are, uh, laid off as well as others. Um, around 130 people have been laid off there. And of course, Google have cut 12,000 jobs. Microsoft 10,000 jobs. Facebook, 11,000 jobs. Salesforce, 8,000 jobs, Amazon, 36,000 jobs, and Twitter, 3,700 jobs. Uh, what about Apple? Apple haven't cut anybody yet, have they? No.

Sam Sethi: 20:41

And I, I wanted to find out why. And part of it is when you look at the numbers, the Apple only increased through covid. They're staffed by 27%. Um, Amazon increased their staff by whopping nearly 50% in total. And Google and Microsoft equally stupidly high numbers. So, um, you know, when you are on Facebook, I think it was 95% increase in staff through Covid. So when you've got crazy high growth like that in terms of staff, um, no wonder you're gonna have to cut back heavy on the downside, the other side. That's sadness, isn't it? Yeah. Well, why would

James Cridland: 21:19

you double the size of your company? Wow. Yeah.. Sam Sethi: So we'll see they haven't cut anyone yet. Let's move on, shall we? Yes. Um, you mentioned right at the start of the show in the chapters you said that the number of new podcasts, is it really down by 80%? So shut the front door, James. Explain what the hell you're talking about. Yes. So this is news that, uh, lots of people were, uh, worried about. If you go to a website, which is called listen notes, you will see that the number of new podcasts over the last couple of years has dropped by 80%. And so a couple of, uh, journalists have taken that and they've printed, you know, oh, you know, podcasting is in real trouble. People are giving up on podcasting. The number of new shows has dropped by 80% in two years. Uh, we're all doomed. Doomed, I tell you, doomed. So I have. Thought, well, is this really the case? And indeed, what is listen notes measuring? Anyway, so I spoke to Daniel J. Lewis. He is, um, also, uh, works on uh, a set of numbers, uh, on podcast industry insights.com. And he gave me very, very similar numbers. But of course those numbers and the numbers from listen notes are total shows in Apple, not total podcast shows out there. And actually, if you go and you try searching for archetypes, which is a Spotify exclusive in the listen notes, um, database, you won't find it, for example, because listen, notes only measures, uh, Spotify. So that was one thing. So actually it's not new shows, it's new shows in Apple Podcasts, but there's another, um, uh, sort of nuance here, um, in terms of Anchor, because if you remember, there was a bit where Anchor in the middle of 2021 suddenly stopped auto submitting to Apple Podcasts. So Anchor had this thing with Apple where they would automatically submit your show on Anchor automatically into Apple Podcasts. And weirdly, apple Podcasts wouldn't, uh, moderate that. They would just be automatically moderated. And I should say that both Apple and Anchor have both denied to POD news that the company's had a process that circumvented approval, although they obviously. So, um, uh, you ended up then with shows in Apple podcasts like, uh, test, which, um, I found last week, which is a podcast called Test, which contains just one episode. It's called, uh, and that episode, uh, last. One second. It's just one second of audio and it's silent. That was, uh, approved by Apple Podcasts for listing. It's still there, and it was submitted in September, 2020 by Anchor. So all of those pod flashes as Daniel, uh, calls them, we're going into these numbers. Um, and then all of a sudden stops going into those numbers. Uh, in the middle of 2021. So no wonder that the amount of new shows has gone down because the amount of these new shows from Anchor has also gone down and actually Anchor sent half a million fewer podcasts to Apple Podcasts in 2022 than in 2020 half. A million, which is kind of like most of these new shows. So basically it's anchor it, it's anchor not, um, it's anchor not, uh, um, submitting, uh, all of this crap into Apple Podcasts. Um, that, that, that's basically what this story is. It's not a story of fewer podcast shows. It's a story of one company anchor and in fact a few companies, uh, anchor and a couple of other free podcast hosts where people stopped fiddling around seeing if they fancied the idea of, of a podcast in the middle of a pandemic and then automatically sticking those into Apple. Um, it really is a case of, um, of, of that, and nothing to do with people falling out of love with the idea. Podcasting. And in fact, if you have a look at new episodes rather than new shows, then new episodes is growing, uh, just as much as you would expect it to. Yes, there was a peak in the middle of the pandemic. Um, but if you have a look at 2022, well it, it follows exactly the same, uh, line as 20 17, 20 18, 20 19. So basically, no, um, uh, podcasters aren't giving up. Committed podcast. Continuing to release new episodes. And, uh, there is not a massive drop of 80%. It's just that listen notes has been measuring something else. And so that's, that's the story behind that. Mr.

Sam Sethi: 26:12

Setti. So I can close that front door now. That's shut. We are done. Good.. And,

James Cridland: 26:16

and actually, and there's a link to that in our, in our show notes and, uh, and of course the pod news newsletter as well. So I,

Sam Sethi: 26:25

I did, when you said it's not anchor, I had the old advert in my head. It's not Anchor, it's not butter. Um, but that's a different story if you remember that ad. Anyway, moving swiftly on. Good Lord. Yes. That's an old ad. That's an old ad, right? But, uh, also, uh, Adam and Dave in last week's podcast were talking about, uh, I think Dave described Anchor as a parasite or a disease, and he's going to ban them from the podcast index. Which is quite interesting. Uh, I dunno how far he'll go with that.

James Cridland: 26:54

Well, I mean, what was, so what what, what, what Dave has been doing is he has been, um, for any free podcast host, which is Anchor, but which is also, um, uh, Spriker and ivus, I think Yokes, um, uh, what Dave has been doing is there is a specific rule for free podcast hosts, which is that, um, uh, I think you need two shows or more to be listed from those particular hosts, and that gets rid of most of them. I mean, you know, if, if you look at, uh, the podcast indexes, uh, numbers from Anchor, then, um, you know, you, you, but basically, I mean, most of the shows that were coming out of Anchor were, were, were one shows and gone, you know, um, there was, there was basically very, very few anchor shows that actually had more than two episodes. So I think, um, Dave is absolutely right in putting together an algorithm there, which keeps some of this crap out of, um, the. Podcast index and podcast apps because, you know, why, why should all of that stuff be in there? Completely worthless, um, content. Um, why should all that stuff end up being in there? Moving

Sam Sethi: 28:03

on, buzz Sprout, our sponsors, um, buzz Sprout has announced a podcast subscriptions tool. Um, you can choose from recurring support or premium content. Uh, it's only available to your supporters, so that's quite cool. The company takes a fee of 15% though, uh, for managing this service for you. So, uh, James, we've added this to pod News Weekly review. Um, what are your thoughts, James, now that we've added it, where, where do you think this is?. James Cridland: Yeah, it's a I mean, obviously I'm gonna say nice things about a sponsor of this very podcast, of course, but you would expect me to. But, um, even, even if they weren't a sponsor, it's, uh, there's some clear thought that has been put, uh, into this. So the fee is 15%, which is roughly the same as a company like Patreon. Uh, and of course half, uh, as much as, uh, Tim Apple. That fee includes the payment fee by the. Um, which is just worthwhile knowing. Um, uh, and so, uh, we've actually enabled it on this very show. It's weekly dot pod news.net, which is, uh, the website address for this show. And if you go there, you can see that you can become a power supporter. That's P P W Pod News Weekly Review Power Supporters. See what I did. Oh, very clever. Um, if you would like to see that at work, I mean, there are a couple of things which are really cool. So when people become a subscriber, uh, then, uh, and you don't have to give them, um, subscription only, um, uh, audio you can if you want, but you don't have to do that. Um, but when people become a subscriber, then you get to know their name and you get to know their email address so you can actually, you know, chat with them. There's an export button, which means that you can pull that information out and do with that. Um, what you would like to do. Um, and you get an email every time somebody becomes a subscriber. Now, if you are, uh, selling access to a version of your show through the Apple Podcast subscriptions, which this works alongside, um, but isn't the same as uh, if you're selling this through Apple, then um, you don't get anything from Apple. It's very difficult to actually even see how many subscribers you actually have, let alone who they are. You don't get any of that information, whereas with. We know that our first subscriber was Kevin Finn from Buzz Sprout. Thank you very much, Kevin. Uh, it's very kind of you.$5 a month. Um, and how's a dictionary? Uh, a long-term, long-time listener. Um, $3 a month. That's very kind of you. So thank you for doing that. And we know that, and we've got their email addresses so we can actually begin to send them additional stuff if we want to. So that's a very cool thing. So I think, you know, there's a lot of thought that's been put into it, and, uh, it goes into the same wallet as. The Buzz Sprout ads, um, revenue goes into, um, so from a point of view of actually getting hold of your money as well, it's a very, uh, simple and sensible way rather than lots of complicated, um, you know, stripes, setups and everything else. So, uh, yeah, I think it's, uh, it's, it's, it's been put together very, very well. So many congratulations to the, uh, team who've done that. Yeah. I was listening to Buzz Cast with Alban, uh, and Kevin talking about it. And fundamentally they see it more in the light of value. For value. They see it as a. You can choose whatever amount you want to pay. It's not a fixed amount. You don't have to have a fixed amount. So they're seeing it as a, yeah, you can say, I value the pod news weekly review, uh, and this is how much I want to give you. And so, yeah, in their minds, they're seeing it much more as a value for value payment than they are seeing it as a traditional subscription payment, like the one that you mentioned from Apple or the unknown subscription from Spotify. But, uh, yeah.

James Cridland: 31:55

Yes, yes. I mean, there, there is., uh, there's a range that you can support your favorite podcast with, uh, $3, $5, $8, and $10. Uh, if this was true value for value, then you could put in any number in there. And there's probably no reason why you wouldn't want exactly to do that in the future, . So, um, so I think that that's probably one small change that I would make if I was in charge. Um, but it's a really nice, uh, system. It works with, uh, directly with, uh, Google Pay if you use that. Presumably Apple Pay if you are on a, on a toy phone. I haven't said that for a while, have I? Um, so no, still

Sam Sethi: 32:33

haven't taken me one, have they? They

James Cridland: 32:34

still have to taken me one. Still haven't sent me one, although I was gifted one, uh, by, by somebody else, so There you go. Oh. So anyway, um, so yeah, so it's, it, it, you know, it's nicely done. Um, and yeah, I think it's, uh, it is just a nice, uh, it's a nice service. It's clearly been a lot of, um, work on the UX as well, and I think that's one change that I have noticed with. The Buzz Brow platform over the last, um, couple of, uh, months, it's been that, uh, things have been changing in terms of ux, both this, but also the emails that we get, which show us how many listeners we, we have and everything else. Those all of a sudden look really an awful lot smarter, an awful lot more professional. Um, this clear work going on with the UX and uh, I think that's a, that's a really smart, uh, thing. So, um, yeah, so I think it's a, it's a good thing if you are on Buzz Sprout, of course you should probably enable it. And if you are not on Buzz Sprout, then you should probably move. Um, they're very helpful to move your shows over there. Ask me how. I know you can find out more, of course, at buzz sprout.com.

Sam Sethi: 33:37

The, the, the emails and the improved UX they've taken on a guy, uh, he was on Buzz Cast, I can't remember his name, I apologize. Um, so he's just joined them. So that would be the reason why they've started to improve. Yes.

James Cridland: 33:48

There you go. Yes. Who knows? As soon as soon as you hire somebody whose job is, is UX , then all of a sudden your UX gets better. Yes, absolutely. Um, but no, I mean, you know, it's, I, I, I think, I think, you know, there's a lot of very clever things that. Buzz Sprout do. There's a real sort of feel of, of a buzz sprout, you know, service. And I think that this has certainly got that. Now talking of

Sam Sethi: 34:12

subscriptions, uh, you wrote about Andrew Cuomo, who's the former New York governor. Um, uh, I would say a disgraced, former New York governor. Uh, he's launched a podcast company called Quake Media. Uh, which he says is not gonna have any advertising and is gonna rely solely on subscriptions from Apple Podcasts. Hmm. Somebody who doesn't know about

James Cridland: 34:33

podcasting. Yes. Well, certainly solely on subscriptions. Uh, whether or not he'll, uh, entirely rely on Apple Podcast subscriptions is a question, I think. But, uh, yeah, I I thought it would, you know, interesting as we, uh, uh, have been buffeted by all of these financial stories, I think it's interesting to hear, uh, albeit Andrew Cuomo launching a podcast company which will specifically rely on subscriptions and not through advertising. Um, that's an interesting move. Whether or not they would also. Uh, make some of their shows available through Value For Value as well. Would, um, be probably, you know, worthwhile having a look at, um, news Breaking Today. Blueberry has just added value for value available to every single user of that platform. That's more than 100,000 podcasts who all of a sudden can turn value for value on now. Um, they've, uh, partnered with, uh, Alby. So, um, there's gonna be a lot of people out there getting into the value for value world, uh, in the next couple of weeks. And, uh, maybe Quake Media will be one of those as well. Oh, I'm

Sam Sethi: 35:39

so glad they picked Alby now I'm very happy on that one. Well done,

James Cridland: 35:42

Todd. Why are you happy about that then, Mr. Seth?

Sam Sethi: 35:45

Uh, well, because we, we partner with Alby, uh, at Pot Vans and it means that all those 100,000 people on blueberry, if they want to eventually come to me means that they've already got. Excellent. Love it.. James Cridland: That's Movie, God. Right. Moving on. Uh, news. News. News. Yes. Global. Uh, the media company here out of the UK has published a report into news podcasting. It promises to explain why news podcasts are proving so popular and how they stack up against other news formats and the best way to ensure success with the podcast and campaign. Yeah, that's the kicker in the bottom. Yeah. So you have to sign up to find out why it's good to advertise with them is really what they're doing, but more seriously, uh, the news agent, which is their. Key news podcast and also the rest is politics tend to be at the top of the charts for Apple Podcasts anyway here in the uk and they're doing great guns globally. I mean, I think the news agent, uh, did 10 million downloads. I mean, it's, it's doing great guns. So, yeah, it, there is a thing, I think they were talking about why are, I think it was Campbell was talking about why are they so successful against traditional journalist media outlets And I think it's cuz they've got more license on a podcast to talk about stuff that they get straight jacketed on the BBC or on other channels cuz of off com or other, uh, restrictions. Uh, and they. Air of Freedom, I think, which comes

James Cridland: 37:14

across in the podcast. Yeah, indeed. I, I think it's a very, uh, you know, it's a very interesting model, and I think particularly in the UK where news broadcasting has always been very stilted. Uh, there's been a requirement, a broadcast requirement to remain unbiased as much as you possibly can, being a human being. Um, and so therefore there's a lot of, you know, other sadism in, um, broadcast, uh, news, which you don't have to do in a podcast, so that's helpful too. You ended up speaking to Jack Davenport, who's, um, behind the rest is politics, didn't you? Yeah.

Sam Sethi: 37:46

Jack's the MD of Goal Hanger. Podcasts, which is the production company. Behind the rest is politics, the rest is history and Empire. Um, and I just wanted to find out, you know, they've had an amazing 2022, what their plans for 23, uh, they are going to internationalize, they come into America. Uh, and what do they think of things like subscriptions and other payment models and where do they fit within the advertising and how they make their money? So I spoke to Jack Goal Hanger

Jack Davenport: 38:13

podcasts came out of a TV production company called Goal Hanger Films. It was set up in 2013 by my business partner, Tony Pasta, who used to run ITV Sport and Gary Linnea. They specialized in sports documentaries and started dipping their toe into podcasting in with 2018.

Sam Sethi: 38:31

Don't mention toes with Gary Line . That's not a good thing, but just wanted to say.

Jack Davenport: 38:37

Well, it all started around Gary doing a podcast with Danny Baker in 2018, which did really well. But commercially podcasting wasn't in the space that it's in now. So that did great numbers for a couple of years for us. Tony is a, a history buff, and I saw, saw a gap in the market for a World War II history podcast. We have ways of making you talk with Almar James Holland, which is still going 600 odd episodes in fantastic loyal, um, audience and community around it, which we've done everything from, you know, shows from inside tanks to run a three day festival in

Sam Sethi: 39:12

a field technically that's longer than the war Yeah,

Jack Davenport: 39:16

it, well, it's longer than the war. It, I, I, I feel like they've probably got at least another 600 episodes in there. It feels like they're barely scratching the surface. So that was how we've got into the, to the history side of it, parallel to this going on, I was a producer at the B BBC for several years. I was on, on a five live sport. I left the BBC in 2018 to move down to London. And with just the vague notion of, you know, my job at the b BBC had increasingly become podcasting. So I tried to. Come down here and, and do that. Wasn't much more complicated thought than that. I spent the first couple of years working in the more commission sector or branded content, things like that. We retained excellent relationships with the b bbc. Did you know sports coverage for the b BBC alongside branded stuff for football teams? Uh, the publishers, that kind of thing. Came into contact with Tony through some of that commission work and goal hanger, and I pitched them. The rest is history. A wide arranging history podcast. He could float between different areas of history, would be comfortable doing anything. It was chat format was, I thought we should do it with Tom Holland, who I follow on social media and had had read a, a book or two of his and seemed like a really engaging character. And we had the link there because he's the brother of James Holland who was doing that, the World War II history podcast. So we started, the rest is history. I produced the first hundred or so episodes myself just as a kind of, let's do this and see what comes of it. And to be fair, fairly quickly, I mean that the rest is history. As a podcast started in December, 2020 and by summer 2021 it was obvious that we had something on our hands and it would sustain a business being built around it, you know, trying to replicate the same principles on which we started. The rest is history. So Gohan podcast was that new company, which started in January last year, 2022. Almost exactly this time when we were recording the interview. And then the first podcast we did under the new umbrella of Gohan podcasts was, the Rest Is Politics, which Aly assisted by the Political Carnage of last year was, you know, a smash hit. And so became something that we honestly had never envisioned when we first came up with it. And yes, so we find ourselves a year in with two big hits. We've just launched. A spinoff of the Rest is Politics, which is called Leading, which is doing really nicely. We launched Empire with William Del Rempel and Danita Arnold, which we're really proud of as well. And we've got big ambitions to keep going.

Sam Sethi: 41:41

So the answer to the question, granddad was what did you do during the covid? Well, I started a production company and had a massive hit. So yours is at least a, an interesting story. Before we move on, who's the goal hanger you or Gary Linah? I'm just trying to work out who named it In my footballing

Jack Davenport: 41:57

days I probably was Gohan, but in a, that, that was very much a, uh, Gary back in the day. Antonio would probably, uh, mark himself of that as well. But, you know, it, it it, it probably makes more sense for a sport TV production company to be called Goal Hanger Films. Maybe a, you know, a pod company that does history in politics is not quite as obvious , but that is the origin

Sam Sethi: 42:17

of it. Okay, so the rest is politics. Amazing numbers, amazing downloads. You ended up the year at the Royal Albert Hall with 5,000 people fully paid up to come and watch you. You did a few trial live events as well. Prior to that. I mean, just talk me through it. What was the meeting that said, oh yeah, you know what? We'll get 5,000 people to come and watch two ex politicians sit on stage and talk about politics. That's gonna work. Yeah, I mean,

Jack Davenport: 42:47

it was an unbelievable, incredible event to be a part of. It's surreal is the only word I can think of to describe it. We were actually approached by the Royal Albert Hall. We didn't solicit it. They approached us about doing it and thought we'd done a couple of live events that had sold really strongly. But when we were talking about it, and when we decided to do it and put the tickets on sale was in that sort of September, October period of just utter political carnage where we couldn't put out enough emergency episodes. Such was the news cycle of truss and quoting and sunk. And so it, we couldn't, you know, timing-wise, it just, it worked out really nicely. Our agents WME put together a really compelling package. Alistair and Rory were very keen that the ticket pricing be, you know, accessible and reasonable. So we made sure that the majority of the tickets were. I think under 30 quid, I thought 35 quid. Certainly with tickets as cheap as 20 quid, we weren't putting it together as a money spinner, and it was just a fantastic way to wrap up. The first year, it took me back to my days as a sort of live radio producer. There's a buzz to doing live stuff that is unique in this sort of broadcasting. So it was a fantastic experience and everyone seemed to be quite happy. We've had great feedback on it and we definitely were making live shows a priority for us going forward.

Sam Sethi: 44:03

So it's an obvious one, but my dad wrote a porno, did Wembley goal hanger production has gotta do Wembley . You've got to have, and they think it's all over, but it is now. Yeah, it's gotta happen.

Jack Davenport: 44:14

Alistair's, you know, desperate to do it. O two Wembley, Sam Sethi: doesn't he think he's a rockstar? I mean, the Pete Peter Crouch podcast did at Wembley Arena fairly recently with a huge carnival audience around it. So we would love to get to that.. Sam Sethi: So going back to do you pair up your hosts? How do you go and find hosts? So not just the rest is politics. Cause I think that's got a great story behind it from what I've heard. But also, how do you find Anita Andand and and William Dow Rempel? How do you find your hosts? Everything we've done so far, we have found one person that we've really wanted to work with and essentially built it around them. What we're trying to create ultimately with our podcast is the tone and the warmth of conversation between the two people. You know, that relationship is the most important thing. The content obviously is what might bring people into it, but what we think keeps people there is being part of that relationship. So in the case of we have ways it was, uh, James Holland's, one of the best selling history historians, and he said, oh, you know who, I have great conversations with this about. It's Al Murray, the comedian, which obviously was like, wow, you know, that's an absolute, that's comedy gold. Yeah, that's a no-brainer. Similarly with Tom Holland, exactly the same conversation. Who do you have the best conversations with? Rory and Alistair, and it was almost exactly a year ago to when we're recording this, we met Alistair. We, you know, another thing to say is that we have a massive, almost unfair competitive advantage in terms of getting to talent because essentially Gary Lin can DM them on Instagram if we wanna chat to them. And being able, exactly. Being able to bypass agents and things like that is a massive advantage, which we know is a huge thing in our favor. So our. Business partner Tony had a relationship with Alistair as well. They're both Burnley fans, so we were able to sit down with him in a pre and Westminster and essentially asked him for a list of Tori that he could better to have a conversation with. We liked the idea of putting something together with two different angles. So obviously, you know, the labor of and Tori thing are very obvious, but for the rest is history. Tom Hollands and ancient historian, and Dominic Sandbrook is a modern, uh, contemporary historian you'd call it. So that's another thing that we'd look for. Again. So Willie Dalrimple had been a guest on the rest is history, and was just a fantastic storyteller. And he's written a book with an Anita I was obviously aware of, uh, Anita was a, threw a work for the bbc and it just was again, just an a, a no-brainer. So we haven't yet tried to, you know, create something out of the air, create a relationship out of the air. We're trying to build on something that's already there and create that warmth that hopefully translates to the. So

Sam Sethi: 46:48

what's next on the slate? I mean, you just brought out Leading, which is a complimentary podcast to the rest is politics. And from what I heard on the first episode, it could go away from politics. It could be, you know, it was Michael Hessel time, but it could be, yeah, Gary Linnea maybe, I'm not saying it would be

Jack Davenport: 47:06

him, but I hear him on the News Agent Stay if you like that. No, I think, yeah, leading Gotta be slightly co around what we can say. We've got some really good guests for that. Coming up from

Sam Sethi: 47:17

it's Alistair's name, half a dozen, Jack Davenport: have no idea. You don't have to be that, to be fair, that is one thing that you realize when you work with Alice Campbell. There, there is no such thing as off the record. So there will be stuff that I'm sure comes out. Yeah, we've got some really exciting guests for that lined up from sport, from business, from entertainment. We'd like that to be able to kind of go anywhere, which is really excited. Where was Liz Truss in that list? She's coming in. What? What. Jack Davenport: Liz, if you're is always open, you know, same goes for Boris for, you know, our biggest fans. I'm sure. So yeah, in terms of other stuff that there will be more. The rest is again, without one, that there's a couple of things that we are really excited about that we are, if not, you know, imminent. Hopefully in the next couple of months people will be hearing about and we can do more than just, the rest is not every podcast we release will be called. The rest is, we've got some, uh, we've got the second idea. Exactly. Well, we'll see. I mean, we, you know, the, the kind of the rest is idea is. The way we've planned it so far is. Taken sort of one step to the left or right of the areas we're in at the moment. So we knew there'd be a relatively decent crossover between people interested in history and people interested in current events and politics. So the rest is, we'll probably continue that kind of methodology. We're also just gonna take a couple of massive swings in, in areas that we don't have audiences at the moment, but we think there's an opportunity or a gap in the. that goes, as you know, from limited run documentary style stuff, out and out drama, which is, I think a really interesting area. And yeah, other areas that we see opportunity with completely fresh talent and new ideas. So looking at monetization of this, you know, how'd you make your money, right? So far, I guess it's ad supported. You've got a member's area for, certainly for the rest is politics. You've started a discord server, which confused most people. Certainly confused Arthur Campbell, I feel, but Rory's mum. But other than that, you know, where'd you see monetization coming you? You talk about live, it wasn't really meant to be a money maker, but clearly it must have made money. Where in 2023 do you think the most revenue generating opportunities are gonna come from?

Jack Davenport: 49:31

Well, in a straightforward sense, the ad part of it, that's gonna be a big part of our revenue. You know, we are with acas, they do a really good job for us. So that's still gonna probably be the biggest slice of the pie. The membership clubs, the communities are massively important to us to be able to have a direct relationship with your biggest fans in that way. You know, across the rest is History has a members club, the rest is History Club, we have, the rest is Politics Plus, and we have Ways also has a really loyal, strong membership subscriber base. It's a massive priority for us. We are gonna be putting a lot of attention on those. We think that's kind of, for us, it's like a second stage in a podcast like life cycle and it's certainly, it's like commercial cycle. So could absolutely happen down the line for Empire, which we only launched in August. So that's it. I mean, touring is definitely up there. It's the biggest challenges for tourings, you know, to take the rest of politics for as an example. Rory Stewart lives in Jordan and is the c e o of a multinational charity that mainly work between the USA and Central Africa. So , it's, you know, it's, we don't have a lot of time where are we gonna be able to get him in the Lowry or, or whenever it is. Obviously we wanna do as much as it is we can, but all our podcasters, none of them are full-time professional podcasters. Maybe that'll change in the next year. But whether that's Tom Holland and Dominic Sandbrook writing books or you know, Alice Campbell Consulting and all the other stuff he does with charity work, Laurie as well. So that's part of the strategy. And then, you know, it's how far we can go beyond that. You, you know, obviously we now have strong and what I think are strong brands just in the general area of history and politics that maybe lends itself to traditional publishing, whether that's, you know, books or magazines. There's the possibility of. Video content either from a, like a traditional sort of TV perspective or a, you know, digital YouTube offering. That's something that we, like everyone else in, in podcasting, I'm sure is trying to work out the best way of doing so. Yeah, our kind of overall strategy this year is how we become more than just audio podcasts and how we can become more than just a, an audio podcast company. I mean, the opportunity for video feels like the, the main part of that is severability and you know, if you can hit the right notes on that, on that YouTube algorithm that can get yourself put in front of people who don't interact with you before. There is nothing that exists like that in traditional audio podcasting apart, you know, maybe getting, being featured on the Apple homepage. But that is an opportunity to find a new audience, I think, which has to be really carefully looked at. Obviously there is monetization potential as well. It's a very different equation in terms of costs to. CPM rates. And on a really basic level, I think it's doable. We are gonna try and do it. You know, there's one way or the other we will be investing in this area. But yeah, I mean it's a tough one we have to record remotely. I've just explained where, you know, Rory's living situation and obviously you wanna be putting out something. You know, if you look at the general standard of things that that goes out on YouTube, the production values on top YouTubes are incredibly high. It looks brilliant. Yeah. So you don't wanna be putting out an inferior product. So, you know, these are production challenges mainly that that need to be solved. But we think there's something there and we are gonna be doing it.

Sam Sethi: 52:56

So given that you tend to grow from people, you know, David Milland was round up, you know Alistair's the other day. The rest is America. Here we come. What's the international growth looking like for goal hanger podcasts?

Jack Davenport: 53:09

So the rest is, history is global, which is it incredible to me. It's. Has been in the last couple of weeks the number one podcast, any genre in Australia in the Apple charts, which is fantastic and you know, absolutely stunning to me. I mean, I think four of our biggest seven cities by location of listeners are in Australia for the rest is history, which is incredible. Oh wow. We have a really sizable audience in the states as well. Probably 20 20% of the Sydney

Sam Sethi: 53:38

Opera House. Here we come.. Jack Davenport: Yeah, exactly. Did I, did my dad write a porno? Do Sydney? I mean they did. They definitely did something in Sydney. I dunno if it was the Opera House, but so that would be something to aim. We do, you know, without wanting to, to reveal too much, we have enough on the table for a six date Aussie tool. For the rest is history, which we really hope is gonna be happening in Autumn, which would be absolutely fantastic. Today we've got a, relative to our overall audience size, a big audience in the States. For the rest is history as well. It's probably 20% of our audience is American and we are having a big push along that front over the next couple of months. So, yeah, you know, abs absolutely. The rest is politics. Obviously by the nature of the uk, focus of the content, it has a smaller US audience than the rest is history. Um, a growing us audience, but, but it is smaller. But there is a really interesting opportunity around what an American version would look like. Maybe politics is just too polarized over there. Wheat meetings, oh, come on. It's Mo Marjorie Taylor Green and a o c would be absolutely mite. I mean, exactly. Well, you know, I would pay just to sit there and watch that. That would be

Jack Davenport: 54:45

daggers. I don't, again, I don't wanna give too much away because it is something, we are actually in the middle of discussions with a couple of us production companies about what it looks like. And without wanting to, there's some of the names being thrown around. It's like, if we could put it together with, you know, say, , you know, a famous former acting governor of California, for example, that would be utterly insane and fantastic. Obviously. I mean, you know that this is a little bit, you know, maybe a bit pie in the sky, but definitely wouldn't rule it out, and something that we'd love to do, something like that. Well,

Sam Sethi: 55:15

as I say, I'll be back to talk to you about it later. Jack, thank you so much for your time. Look amazing. Year 2022. All the best for 23. If people want to find Goal Hanger podcast, where would they go? Or just where would you find more about yourselves and what you're doing?

Jack Davenport: 55:31

Yep. Uh, goal hanger podcast.com or probably the best way would just be to connect with me on LinkedIn. Jack Davenport Gohan podcasts and yeah, we're always happy to chat

James Cridland: 55:41

And in people news, uh, Jay Green, who, uh, was working for Cadence 13 and Odyssey has now joined Sound Rise as a senior Vice President of Strategy and Operations. He is, A, uh, industry veteran, I think is, uh, a polite way of saying he's been working in the industry for a long, long time. Uh, so many congratulations, uh, Jay, uh, for joining. Uh, sound Rise. Uh, Lovelin Corbit has also moved from Cantar to join Sound Rise as well, to become the new director of National accounts. Uh, Johan Bgn is stepping down from Acast. He's leaving, uh, the business. He was of course, co-founder and chief in. Officer and in fact, um, owned an awful lot of, uh, entertaining, uh, initials. Um, he is remaining a shareholder and he's very, very proud of everything that he's done. And so he should be Larry Wilmore. A comedian and host of Black On the Air is to host the 2023 Podcast Academy Awards and Brittany Bernardo has been named as Senior Director of Revenue and Sales Strategy at True Native Media. It's a new hiring for them. She was director of Podcast Sales at iHeart Podcast Network. If you are looking for a job, POD News has podcasting jobs across the industry and across the world, and they're free to post two. It'll take just two minutes to add a new role at pod news.net/jobs. And if you've been affected by recent changes in the job market, we'd love to sing your praises to more than 25,000 subscribers. Just email editor pod news.net, the techstar Techstar on the Pod News Weekly review. Yes, it's the stuff you'll find every Monday in the Pod News newsletter. Here's where we do all of the, uh, tech talk, Sam Moore podcast, hosting companies supporting more things in podcasting 2.0. Yeah. Congratulations

Sam Sethi: 57:33

to Spreaker. It's the latest podcast hosting company to support transcripts. Yay. Well done. You, uh, using the podcast transcripts tag allows podcasts to publish transcripts and captions, which are shown by a growing number of podcast apps. So yes, another one Join. The fold.

James Cridland: 57:49

Yes. And of course they're joining, uh, blueberry, which added the podcast transcript tag a couple of weeks ago. RSS Blue, which is yet another podcast hosting company, have added, uh, splits in episodes now. Um, using Value for Value. Uh, so you can, uh, add all of that, uh, information directly. It's, uh, got, uh, information linking directly into your Fountain wallet or your Albi wallet. Uh, so that's all pretty cool as well. Yeah. And

Sam Sethi: 58:17

the one extra feature that they've added is you can also add your guests into those splits in RSS blue, which I think is quite cool. So before you couldn't do that, you could put the hosts in, and now in the RSS feed, you can now put the. Which I think is really cool. Yeah, well

James Cridland: 58:32

done Blue, which is, uh, really nice and there's a little bit of work going on at the moment with the podcast value tag, just potentially adding the, um, the lightning address so you know, your lightning address. Sam is sam@getlb.com. Uh, and so adding that into the spec as an optional, uh, choice, um, so that, uh, it just ends up being, uh, a little bit easier for podcast apps to be able to look up that information and uh, pay you. So that, uh, kind of makes sense too.

Sam Sethi: 59:03

Oh, wouldn't it be just, wouldn't it be just, that would be

James Cridland: 59:05

lovely. Yes. Now, re Phonic has also launched a free tool to enable podcast reviews on your website. This is a really smart thing. It looks so cool. And one of the things that I like about it is that the example. As the, all the best examples are, are examples of the, um, of the pod news, uh, podcast of the Pod News Daily podcast. So there's, um, uh, a ton of, uh, entertaining examples in there, um, which I notice, uh, that James, that riff on it has very carefully scrolling, scrolled down, uh, so you don't see the miserable one from Mike Bday at the top, uh, . So thank you again, James, for doing that. Um, but it's very, very cool. So if you've got your own website, um, it's a little Java script, uh, include on there, which, uh, automatically goes off and pulls your, uh, your reviews and, uh, sticks it onto your website. Mm.

Sam Sethi: 59:58

Uh, oof. Not re phonic. Oph Phonic has launched an Auto EQ feature. It's in beta and there are some examples in their announcement post. So yeah, and that's another cool new tool that's come

James Cridland: 1:00:10

out. It is. And, uh, let, let, let's play two of those examples. Now. Here's a bit of the audio, uh, without their magic Auto EQ feature. In our studio today is Dr. Bob Bin Shaler. Bob is a leading expert on glaciers and ice sheets. And now here's a bit of that same audio, but with the auto EQ feature. In our studio today is Dr. Bob bin Shaler. Bob is a leading expert on glaciers and ice sheets. Well, that works then, doesn't it? That's, uh, pretty good. So, uh, congratulations. Orph phonic or, or alph phonic. I, I, you've, you've got me wondering how I pronounce that Now. I've always pronounced it or phonic, but maybe it's alph. Phonic. Oh, I no idea. It's Todd Cochran pronounces it or phonic doesn't he? So, uh, yeah, so still, there we go. Potato patal, . There's a new demo stats page for, uh, OP P three, uh, which, uh, John Sperlock has, has added, although if you do do a quick, uh, look around, um, uh, particularly on Master Dawn, then you'll find, uh, a link to Buzz cast. Buzz Sprout's very own podcast, which they've been sharing, uh, as well, which is nice.

Sam Sethi: 1:01:16

And finally, if you do a live podcast, uh, basically are you lit, uh, the live item tag, then the way to do that. There's a lovely blog post from you, James, explaining a little bit more about it and your point of view for a radio station. What is this radio station? Tell me more.

James Cridland: 1:01:35

Yes, I, I was just really writing this for cuz uh, my other hat is a radio, um, uh, uh, consultant and, um, I think that radio, uh, uh, companies really should be jumping onto, uh, lit onto the live item tag. Uh, and using that, if you're producing a podcast, which is just, you know, a weekly version of, you know, the best of, of the breakfast show, for example, then why would you not want to signal the fact that the Breakfast show is now live the show that your listeners already following, why would you not signal that Breakfast show is actually live in somebody's. Podcast app. So I think that would be a super clever thing. Um, so well worth, um, radio stations looking into, and funnily enough, I've just been talking, uh, to a radio station in Germany all about it. So, uh, hopefully we might see some action from, uh, that side as well. Yeah,

Sam Sethi: 1:02:29

with River Radio, we, we basically called it Podcast First Radio. The reason was each show was one hour. It was a podcast that was being recorded, live and broadcast. Live over d a b Alexa and whatever., but we didn't implement the lit part because it wasn't really ready for mainstream. And I wish we had, because that was the missing part that would've then allowed us to have listeners subscribe and know when the shows were live. Um, so yeah, I think it's amazingly good for radio stations to do this and implement it. And I think one of the things that Adam and Dave were talking about last week was adding radio as an extension in the medium tag, uh, as part of the name space, so that it wasn't seen as a podcast or a music or a video, but it was specifically given a tag of radio. As it's, uh, Monica, let's see

James Cridland: 1:03:19

what happens there. Uh, should we, should we go around the world? Let's go around the world. Where to first, Sam?

Sam Sethi: 1:03:25

Well, let's start in Spain. Uh, Preza Audio is made its first upfront presentation on Friday. The company claims it's the world's second largest audio streaming company. Wow. That's a big, uh, uh, statement. And it ranks number one in the Spanish language. The release contains a number of data points. It's ad revenue grew 43% over the previous year. Well

James Cridland: 1:03:48

done to them. Yes. They're doing, uh, pretty good work. And of course, uh, Presa Audio is not just in Spain, but it's in lots of other Spanish language, uh, countries as well, doing very, very well. Uh, Germany has just released the AGMA podcast Ranker, uh, which is, uh, one of their big, uh, podcast rankers. Um, Zeit Onlines What now, uh, which is a news podcast, which published 82 episodes in December, is number 180 2 episodes in December. How many of that is per day? 82 divided by i 31. Two and a half episodes per day. That's mental, isn't it? Um, uh, so they're number one, uh, comedy show, Baywatch Berlin, which released four shows, uh, is number two, uh, with much the same amount of downloads. It's participating publishers only, and it's one of a number of different, uh, podcast rankers in Germany.. Oh,

Sam Sethi: 1:04:41

great. You've left the Dutch one for me, haven't you? In the Netherlands. Newsroom. Levin. Har Mans. Oh, I've just butchered that, haven't I? About a fund for audio production from the public broadcaster npo, which was to disappear and now isn't kind of, so there you go. Who, who

James Cridland: 1:04:58

knows what MPO is doing? It's so, it's, it's this large public broadcaster that is run in a very strange way. I've, I've, I've seen strange ways of operating radio companies and TV companies before. Uh, but npo o uh, is, uh, is prop properly. Takes the biscuit. Um, and they've got specific funds there for audio, um, that they said were going away, and then they've changed their mind and now aren't going away, although they probably will go away and it's very confusing. But if you speak Dutch, leaving Hedermans, um, I, I've probably bitch butchered just as much as Sam does., uh, has written a good blog post, uh, all about that. Also, uh, in the same country, Acast has partners with, uh, podcast production company to media, which is a very big one, uh, in. The Netherlands. So, uh, congratulations to them.

Sam Sethi: 1:05:46

And finally, uh, out of Africa. Congratulations, uh, podcasting group pod break for reaching your first year anniversary. Uh, well done to you,

James Cridland: 1:05:56

Ryan. Let's take a quick look at some events. Spotify has partnered with Pod Live Sport for the UK's first Sport podcast festival. It's on February 8th to the 12th in London at, uh, King's Place. If you want to go along and take a peek at that, on Air Fest has announced all kinds of speakers and headliners. It's in Brooklyn in New York. February the 23rd to the 25th, of course, podcast movement. Evolutions is in Las Vegas at the beginning of March 6th to the 10th of March. Um, I'll be there. Sam will be there. A couple of other ones for you to know about. Radio Days, Europe, which is in Prague 26th to the 28th of March, has a podcast summit, particularly, uh, the New York Podcasting Summit is in Auckland, May 13th. Looking forward to that. Uh, more details of that on pod news, uh, earlier on this week. And the podcast show in London, uh, is coming back May the 24th to the 25th. I was speaking to the organizers yesterday. I know a number of, uh, the names who are speaking. Some of them are massive and it's gonna be very, very exciting., but I can't tell you who any of them are. Uh, so there we go. Uh, a little bird tells me that, uh, you can get, uh, very cheap tickets for the podcast show London right now cause I've not announced anything about it. Um, uh, but you can save yourself 35%. Uh, it's just 49 pounds, uh, whatever. 49 pounds, uh, is in dollars 49 GPP in U s d $49. Uh, I can. I can tell you it's 85 Australian dollars. Um, thanks Google for being useless. And I can also tell you it's $60. Uh, so it's very, very cheap. I mean, there is obviously, you know, the flight, uh, to get there, uh, but still highly recommended. That's towards the end of May and there are more events both paid for and free at Pod News, uh, both virtual ones and physical ones. If you are organizing something, tell the world about, it's free to be listed at pod news.net/events. Booster Graham, booster Graham Corner, corner, corner on the POD News Weekly review. Oh, yes, it's my favorite part of the week. You've done an excellent job of grabbing some, um, uh, some exciting, uh, boosts, uh, who has sent us some boosts this week. Sam, uh, the wonderful

Sam Sethi: 1:08:07

Kiran from, um, your backyard. Uh, no, not literally your backyard, just where you live. Um, He'd sent us from mere mortals, um, TikTok podcast. I also listened to this really great podcast the other day. It was two people in front of me speaking. I don't think Kieran likes TikTok podcast as an idea, but he did send us a Ro of Ducks. 2, 2, 2, 2.

James Cridland: 1:08:28

Yes, I think he's taking the Mick. Uh, he also did a very good interview with Oscar Mary last week about the Lasd version of Fountain. And Oscar was also on, uh, Adam. And, uh, Dave's, uh, show podcasting, uh, 2.0 as well. Um, uh, my feedback to Oscar after all of that was by yourself, a microphone mate, . Uh, so hopefully we'll be doing that. Um, too, really good to see. Uh, Carrie, I saw him on Monday, um, at, uh, the Brisbane Podcasters Meetup. Uh, it was a, it was an intimate affair, not, not. Not in that way, but, uh, there weren't, there weren't that many people, is what I'm basically saying. Um, but it was really good to see, uh, Karin, um, uh, in a pub, uh, in Brisbane, but about 40 minutes drive away. So I was drinking a beer called Nanny State, which is alcohol free, uh, which was a bit tedious, but nevertheless, it was good fun, uh, to have a chat with, uh, those people. Uh, there's somebody from the Netherlands again who we can't pronounce. Um, uh, I'm

Sam Sethi: 1:09:28

gonna say the, I is silent to go, Julian, but you, you go for it.. James Cridland: Yes. Who knows, who knows? Um, so apologies. But anyway, uh, a thousand stats, uh, from you. Thank you. Uh, they say Thank you for keeping me updated again, I started a podcast about podcast news and what's happening in the industry for my fellow Dutchies. And of course Pod News is a fantastic source, along with other newsletters that he mentions that I'm not going to mention. Very excited to see where Sam's Pod fans is going. Have a great week. PS still earning my sat through Fountain. Happy to see that they have added the option to buy SATs directly from your bank account. They have. Yes, indeed. They did. And another row of ducks from Nathan Gathwright, uh, apples only cutting their nose despite their face. He says if they've given up their position as taste maker to someone else, but their market share doesn't appear at risk otherwise. How does Apple benefit from promoting any other kind of show? Uh, the hot on fountain chart can't drive the same extraordinary traffic, but it has the same incentives Promote the type of shows that benefit the platform. Yes. If you, um, if you put Fountain in just your own Fountain wallet, uh, in as a 1% boost in your, um, in your podcast, then you, uh, stand the chance of appearing on that hot on fountain charts, which is what I've done to this very show. Uh, so my, um, my split is now 48% and I'm putting another 1% into Fountain and another 1% to the podcast index. I think so, uh, Um, you're, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Uh, Nathan, I think, you know, apple is doing some interesting changes, uh, promoting their paid for subscriptions, so it'll be interesting to see, uh, what happens there. If you do get value from what we do, the pod news weekly review is separate from Pod News. Sam and I share everything from it. We really appreciate your, your support, so we can continue making this show. Go and try Buzzsprout supporting, uh, or Buzzsprout scripting. Um, subscribing at, uh, weekly dot pod news.net. You can become a power supporter there. You can subscribe in Apple Podcast at apple.co/pod news or supporters with stats by hitting the boost button in your podcast happen. If you don't have one, pod news.net/new podcast apps will help you find a new app. Now, what's been happening for you this week, Sam? Any, uh, exciting lunches? Well, generally, no, not this week, no, but I genuinely think I. You told me many, many moons ago that stats says that nobody listens to the last bit of the show. So I thought I could say stuff in this bit. Find out people do listen. Yeah. Um, yeah, I know it turns out strange.. Uh, I was interviewed by, um, Danny Brown on the podcast chat, uh, podcast, his podcast, um, about pod fans activities, streams, value for value. So yeah, um, I talk about, uh, such per minute and lit. So thanks Danny for the invite. I really enjoyed that. Uh, we've just enabled Pod Ping and lit in pod fans, so I'm very excited. I'll be testing that on Friday with a certain Adam Curry. But, uh, we'll see. Uh, and next week on this show, our guest is Jordan Harbinger. I've heard of him. I'll

James Cridland: 1:12:35

be interviewing him next week. Uh, so, uh, yes, he's.

Sam Sethi: 1:12:39

He's, I was gonna say he's not heard of you.

James Cridland: 1:12:41

No, he's excellent. I've and Jordan for a long, long time. He's, he's an excellent person. So, yes. Looking forward to, uh, hearing that. I, I hear that he's gonna be at the podcast show in London as well.

Sam Sethi: 1:12:52

Oh, there you go. Now, James, what's happened for you this week? Please say, you can tell me

James Cridland: 1:12:57

something. So, I had a really good conversation yesterday with Tom Billington from the podcast show in London. I've got a number of, uh, things that I, uh, should be doing, uh, for him, uh, and a big list in front of me that I've been ignoring all day. So that's nice. Um, always good. I've mentioned. The Brisbane podcasters as well, uh, which is all fun looking at, uh, radio Days, Asia. We're starting our, uh, programming meetings tomorrow for that. That's in Kuala Lumpur in early September. So beginning to, um, uh, have a look at, uh, how that works. So that might be quite fun, uh, to, uh, continue, uh, working on, uh, and also had a really nice chat with, uh, sky Pilsbury, um, who is, uh, write who writes the Squeeze of course, and she's currently writing a, um, article or a story on podcast awards. If you've got anything you would like to say about podcast awards, particularly if you think that some of the podcast awards are rubbish, or some of the podcast awards are excellent because I believe that there's a bit of both, um, then you should contact, uh, Skye and let her know, particularly if you've got some, um, entertaining stories about awards, as I think we all do. Um, that will be a good thing, but really good to, uh, catch up with, uh, sky, uh, as well. That was a, that was a good thing. The other thing, uh, I I just wanted to mention is the podcasting Power Hour, which you will find, uh, on Twitter spaces. Um, now for me, it's, uh, midday. Um, uh, I believe that means it's nine in the evening in Eastern Time, New York possibly. Um, but it's a really good, uh, uh, thing, uh, on, uh, Twitter, the podcasting Power Hour, uh, every, uh, so that will be every Monday night at nine, uh, Eastern time. Uh, it's a really good thing and it's just a very entertaining, uh, hour, uh, talking about stuff going on in podcasting. So if you, um, find yourself at a loose end on a Monday night, uh, or maybe on a Tuesday morning if you are in other parts of the world, um, then, uh, open Twitter and give that a go and see if you can get that to work. Uh, that's it for this week.

Sam Sethi: 1:15:07

You can give us feedback using email to weekly@podnews.net, or send us a booster gram. If your podcast app doesn't support Boost, then grab a new one from pod news net slash new podcast

James Cridland: 1:15:19

apps. Yes, and our music is from Studio Dragonfly. Our voiceover is Sheila D, and we're hosted and sponsored by Buzz Pratt Podcast Hosting made easy. Get updated every day. Subscribe to our newsletter@podnews.net. Tell your friends and grow the show. Support us and support us. The POD News Weekly review will return next week. Keep listening.