James C: 0:00

It's Friday, the 12th of May 2023.

Jingles: 0:04

The last word in podcasting news. This is the Pod News weekly review with James Kirkland and Sam Sethi.

James C: 0:13

I'm James Cridland, the editor of Pod News.

Sam Sethi: 0:15

around Sam Sethi, the CEO of Pot Funds.

James C: 0:17

In the chapters today across financials, Amazon paying people to listen to podcasts, bumpers, listen, time broadcast podcast. And is it too soon to call podcasting on YouTube a flop? Plus,

Rob Lowenthal: 0:32

Hello, it's Rob Lowenthal from Spotify and I'll be on later to talk about megaphones. New broadcast the podcast technology.

Sharon Taylor: 0:39

Hi, I'm Sharon Taylor. I am the SVP of Podcast Strategy at Triton Digital, and I'll be on later to talk about our podcast, a podcast strategy.

Darby Dorras: 0:47

I'm Doris, director of content at Listen and I'll be coming up a bit later to talk to you about the podcast show, what we're doing there, our original unboxed and the wider plans here. Listen.

James C: 1:07

they wail. This podcast is sponsored and hosted by Buzz Brown. Last week, 3994 people started a podcast with Buzz about podcast hosting made easy with powerful tools and remarkable customer support. And now you can turn your listeners into supporters with Buzz Sprout subscriptions. Go on. Give it a whirl with us at Weekly Dot Pod News, dot net. And we're brought to you by Pod News Life, where podcasting connects in Manchester in June. You can get your tickets today, a pod news dot net slash live.

Jingles: 1:39

Pod news lie where the podcast industry connects. Get your tickets now at Pod News start PCMag slash live.

Track 9: 1:47

From your daily newsletter, the PA News Weekly reviews.

Sam Sethi: 1:52

So, James, let's kick this off with a little start. Over the last week, 250,550 podcasts published at least one new website. That seems like a very good number.

James C: 2:03

Yes, indeed. And actually, you'll find lots of data on the podcast business Journal website podcast business journal, WSJ.com, which is a sister publication to pod news. And another bit of data on there is that there was a new podcast episode posted every 0.9 seconds last in the last 30 days, which is, which is interesting. I know that we last week gave a number of 1.5 seconds, but apparently is 0.9 seconds. So. So there's a thing anyway. Yes. Lots of exciting numbers.

Sam Sethi: 2:35

talking of numbers, Acast released their financials, Ross Adams and Emily Velocity released their Q1 2023 results. What was the overall view of it? James?

James C: 2:46

Well, the overall view is it's slow and steady wins the race. I think they have seen net sales growing 11% for the quarter year on year, which is£25.8 million pounds. That's a thing, though. Net sales in North America actually dropped a little bit. So perhaps there are two stories going on. There's the story of podcasting out of North America and there's the story everywhere else. Anyway, they're working with 2300 advertisers across the globe as well, and they say that they now host more than 100,000 registered podcasts globally, which is quite a number. Having said that, they're not quite profitable yet, are they?

Sam Sethi: 3:30

No, they didn't quite hit that number, but they have got 100 million monthly unique listeners, which is again, another good start for them. I think the overall is that they're cutting down on costs and they're slowly increasing their revenues,

James C: 3:44

Yeah,

Sam Sethi: 3:44

which will eventually, in 2024, I think were targeted to hit proper profitability.

James C: 3:50

indeed. And it all looks as if everything is going in the right direction. So well done to acast. That's a splendid thing. Meanwhile, other companies beginning with a getting out the chequebook, aren't they.

Sam Sethi: 4:04

Yeah, well, I think it's if you can't beat them, pay them. It seems Amazon down your way might I'll paying some Australian listeners call you're going to be rich in vouchers just for listening to a podcast on a platform. First of all, why. And secondly, we all have How much money have you made? James?

James C: 4:23

Well. Well, I am not eligible apparently. I think this is for people that haven't yet listened to a podcast on Amazon music. And if you're one of those people, then you can claim 5 AUD, which is about 3.39 in Freedom cash just for listening to a podcast on the platform. So you'd need to download the Amazon music app and then have a listen to a show on there. Really interesting seeing Amazon basically trying to really push the amount of trial going on on that platform. So I just mention that the Pot News Daily is just 5 minutes long. You have to listen to a podcast all the way through. So you know, a nice quick podcast is always a good plan, so you can give that a go if you are eligible, but there's a special link that you've probably been emailed if you are. So give that a go. They've also been buying other things, not just listeners, but they've been buying an AI platform called Snackable, which they apparently they bought at the end of last year. Tech from that will appear in the Amazon music app and they're doing pretty well from podcasting anyway. Amazon's cloud front is on a 12 month high in terms of the podcast share 51.56% of all new podcast episodes in April were being hosted on Amazon's cloud front in some way, shape or form. So they're doing particularly well. Whatever happens, if that system falls over, you won't be able

Sam Sethi: 5:54

Single?

James C: 5:54

to get any podcasting, you won't be able to get any of our websites as well, I tell you, because both the Pot news website and the Podcast Business Journal are also on there too. So yeah, so who knows what's going on there.

Sam Sethi: 6:06

what we're hoping to get Craig's track and who's the Amazon European podcasting director onto the show. That's if I can get past the PR people who are being gatekeepers this week and last week and the week after on the week after. But if they can

James C: 6:21

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 6:21

get out of the way, Craig will love to come on the show. So hopefully he will in a few weeks time.

James C: 6:25

I'm looking forward to seeing him in a couple of weeks when I'm in London. And

Sam Sethi: 6:32

And

James C: 6:32

of course, you know you will, too, because the podcast show is coming, isn't it?

Sam Sethi: 6:37

it is it's it's I think I feel like we've been talking about this for nine months feels like the gestation of a baby but it is here. I am actually looking forward to this one. It is

James C: 6:47

Yeah.

Sam Sethi: 6:48

based on last year's show, which was fantastic. Well done to the team there. This one looks bigger and better. So, yes. Are you excited, James?

James C: 6:56

Yes, I'm very excited. I am. I am doing the opening keynote, which is going to be very cool. Please, if you're going to get to the podcast show.

Sam Sethi: 7:05

Sorry. Sorry. Got to ask. Suit? No

James C: 7:07

Oh,

Sam Sethi: 7:07

suit.

James C: 7:07

suit.

Sam Sethi: 7:08

Just got

James C: 7:08

Most

Sam Sethi: 7:08

to be clear.

James C: 7:08

definitely. Suit.

Sam Sethi: 7:09

Oh,

James C: 7:09

Most definitely. It's a dress up.

Sam Sethi: 7:11

well done.

James C: 7:11

Most

Sam Sethi: 7:12

Yes,

James C: 7:12

definitely. Yes. You have to get there early if you are doing the podcast show because I'm on at 9:10 a.m., I think doors open at 830, so please turn up nice and early. I'm in the Amplify Theatre. It's a theatre for 400 people, so I don't want it to be half empty. But I am the warm up guy for Ashley Flowers. If you come to see me, then also you get to see crime junkies. Ashley Flowers. So that's a good thing. There's some real excitement about this event. So I caught up with Tom Billington from the podcast show and I asked him what he's looking forward to,

Tom Billington: 7:46

first of all, just to say we're so excited to have it back. You know, after a first year where we go in this time last year when we bought, we we had big plans. We were selling the dream. We knew

James C: 7:58

Hmm.

Tom Billington: 7:58

what we wanted to do. But then when we delivered it, it was we have been blown away by the response to year one and then now leading into year two, where we are

James C: 8:06

Hmm.

Tom Billington: 8:06

out with it as well. In terms of the international reach, we always wanted to have an international show and saw an opportunity there. But really we're just over a week out now and we see the numbers that are coming in and travelling from around the world, you know, over 35 countries are represented through our speaker program and through the delegates that have come in. Obviously

James C: 8:25

Hmm.

Tom Billington: 8:26

good showing from Europe

James C: 8:27

Hmm.

Tom Billington: 8:27

as

James C: 8:27

Hmm

Tom Billington: 8:27

you'd expect in the UK. But you know, like yourself travelling over from from Australia and that region and Asia, South America in the US as well, bringing the community together, that's what I'm really looking forward

James C: 8:39

hmm

Tom Billington: 8:39

to. You know, getting everyone under one roof in London and it's great to see for this year as well. As we head into year to the organic nature of it as well. So these are the communities coming together. People are taking the opportunity around Islington and around London for pop up events and just really using that gathering throughout the,

James C: 9:00

hmm

Tom Billington: 9:00

you know, the shows two days

James C: 9:01

hmm.

Tom Billington: 9:02

on the 24th and 25th with a preview night that we're doing on the 23rd. But around the week the is coming together and and using that time in London to really yeah. To get together and and meet and have meaningful conversations outside of the show as well which is amazing to see.

James C: 9:19

Yeah. I'm looking forward to the pot news drinks, which are happening the

Tom Billington: 9:22

Yeah

James C: 9:23

previous the previous nights. Don't ask to come. If you've not been asked, then, then you're not coming. But in terms of in terms of what's new this year, you've added a preview night,

Tom Billington: 9:33

yeah we have yeah. I mean again because we saw a lot of people travelled to London for the show, we wanted to maximise it out and not preview, not really. See on the 23rd is 3 hours. It's a real, it's an intimate look at the show. Everything will be set within the venue. We're handing out a Trailblazer award, which

James C: 9:53

With.

Tom Billington: 9:53

is new for this year, so it's really looking at someone on the international

James C: 9:56

Mm hmm.

Tom Billington: 9:57

within the international industry who's making amazing moves, who's doing brilliant things, and that's going to actually flowers this year. And so, you know, we've looked

James C: 10:07

Mm

Tom Billington: 10:07

at what

James C: 10:07

hmm.

Tom Billington: 10:08

actually has been doing within obviously the true crime space and building her brand now and again using the platform of podcasting, but really have created an amazing platform globally. So we're handing out the award and giving that honour out. And then we've what we've done as well for this year is we've built out an advisory panel which we thought was really important because, you know, with the show positioned well on the international scale, we wanted to make sure that as we grow, we do it in a way that is representative of the industry and that we've

James C: 10:41

Mm

Tom Billington: 10:41

so we pulled together ten people

James C: 10:43

hmm.

Tom Billington: 10:43

from different parts of the industry, again, on the international looking at it internationally from those in the US that are in Rosenbaum or Donald Albright as well from Tenderfoot TV looking at the UK market with production company leaders as well. And it's really just who those ten people are there to hold us to account and make sure that we're on the right track with the show. And they helped with the the advisory of who were given the Trailblazer Award, too. They'll be there on preview night as well. Other things for preview now is that we'll have it in conversation with Fern Cottam, who is a UK based podcaster, doing brilliant things, building out Happy Place, the brand as well. So we're really just wanting to shine a spotlight on the show. People that can come down. There's a few tickets left for that, but again, it's an intimate first look at what's going on. All of the stands will be set and exhibitors will be there. It's really just a a pre-party to what's to come. And for people that are in London that night before.

James C: 11:47

Yeah. And I'm looking forward. You mentioned actually flowers. I'm looking forward to being her warm up man on the Wednesday

Tom Billington: 11:52

Yes.

James C: 11:52

morning, which should be great fun. And, yeah, it's. I mean, it sounds. It sounds a really great show. I know that we've got later on in this show, we've got Derby Doris from Listen and we'll be talking to him about what his company has been doing for the show as well. Is attendance looking good? Is it up on last year?

Tom Billington: 12:14

Yeah, it is.

James C: 12:15

Yeah.

Tom Billington: 12:15

So we

James C: 12:16

So.

Tom Billington: 12:17

we had about 5300 through the doors last year and already we've we've outsold that. So, you know,

James C: 12:23

Great.

Tom Billington: 12:23

we're in a really

James C: 12:23

Wow.

Tom Billington: 12:24

healthy place. We're

James C: 12:25

Mm hmm.

Tom Billington: 12:25

looking at probably around six and a half thousand people for the daytime event again, which is we are ecstatic about. And again is we're always looking to build. So,

James C: 12:37

hmm.

Tom Billington: 12:37

you know, whatever level you are within the industry, this we want to make the show for you you know and ticket

James C: 12:42

Yeah.

Tom Billington: 12:43

prices again. And we've wanted to make it as accessible as possible, you know, for the £30 ticket from the thirties, a £69 for a daytime ticket and, you know, so we want

James C: 12:56

So

Tom Billington: 12:56

to make sure that whether you're just

James C: 12:57

what?

Tom Billington: 12:57

starting out as a creator right through to the professional production companies and the marketeers through to the CEOs, this show is really for you. So in terms of ticket sales and and those that are coming through through the doors, yeah, we feel super happy at where we are and just encourage people to get their tickets now before before the show because I can't imagine too many will be available on the door this year.

James C: 13:21

Yeah. No, absolutely. And if you use the coupon co pod news, then who knows? You might save a little bit more money on those tickets, which are very reasonably priced anyway. Well, what sort of people go to this? There's there's a thought from our friends in America that podcasting in the UK, well, it's just the BBC and some other radio broadcasters and that's kind of it is There are lots of radio broadcasters. They're all what what what kind of split is there in terms of people

Tom Billington: 13:53

I mean, we are just down the road from the UK broadcast industry hub and we're a stone's throw away from Kings Cross where there's the media district now as well. In London. So you know, the BBC's there in a big way. Yes,

James C: 14:06

that.

Tom Billington: 14:06

of course. But then Acast and Amazon Music and Wondery are our headline sponsors this year. You've got Spotify Return and Global back in a big way as well and Sony Music Entertainment. So you've got the the core and the podcasting and and the audio space and the traditional media brands as well. New partners for this year. Just to give a bit of context around that as well. So Sky News is going to be coming down in a big way. They're going to be broadcasting live from the show on the Wednesday morning as well, which we're really

James C: 14:36

Mm

Tom Billington: 14:36

excited

James C: 14:37

hmm.

Tom Billington: 14:37

about. That's a great addition. And you mentioned listen as well. So the production company

James C: 14:43

Some people

Tom Billington: 14:43

element of the the industry is showing up this year as well, more so than than last year, which is brilliant to see, obviously the lifeblood of the creativity of the the podcasting industry. And,

James C: 14:55

might

Tom Billington: 14:55

you know, just to mention, listen as well, they've got their on stage this year as well, which is the rise up and their programme that I want, you know, if I was going to talk about what they've got coming up on that, I want, I'll just tease that. But he's brilliant and they've done an amazing job at looking at the, the industry in a way that just the vibrancy of it and not just a traditional way. Other areas just to give context of those that are coming down. New York Times, one of our partners this year as well, as well as Tortoise Media, said that those news brands, The Guardian, are coming back as well. Interestingly, what

James C: 15:32

Mm

Tom Billington: 15:32

we've seen is, is an uplift in talent agencies wanting to put their talent forward. Obviously, huge. You know, podcasting for for talent and traditional presenters in the media space is is massive and the attention of the agents to the show a lot wiremu united talent wme putting their talent forward has been good to see as well. But in terms of who it's for, whatever level within the industry, the show is for you. If you're a creator, an independent creator, we want to make the show feel inviting to you as much as we do to the to the big companies that I've just mentioned as well. So if you are looking to get a ticket and you are a creator, you will be able to come in and cast, have got a box called Creator Economy Corner. They say it's a corner of the show that they ask us to take it all there, which is inviting like a genius bar. If you walked in the Apple store where you can get advice on every different aspect of of starting out, whether that's marketing or socials or hosting that's scattered throughout the show as well, the advice and inspiration is there for you. So I just want to make sure that were London that point there, we've got the big brands there, but this is really for the independent community as well.

James C: 16:52

Yeah. Well, very good. The website is the podcast show London dot com. And as I say, if you use the code pod news, then who knows? That might save you a little bit of money. So looking forward to it. Time in a couple of weeks. I'm looking forward to coming home and seeing if, you know, if London is still standing. So thank you so much. I look forward to seeing you then.

Tom Billington: 17:15

looking for senior

Sam Sethi: 17:17

There we go. Tom Billington. And yes, I think it will be. If you haven't got your tickets already, I suggest you do. You can still buy tickets for the event using the code and pod news, and you'll get a discount. And if you also, you get to see James as well. So it's a double whammy.

James C: 17:34

yes. You can see me in the suit and everything else. So that's going to be good. Really looking forward to that.

Sam Sethi: 17:38

More

James C: 17:38

And

Sam Sethi: 17:39

news

James C: 17:39

more

Sam Sethi: 17:39

about

James C: 17:39

news

Sam Sethi: 17:40

what's

James C: 17:40

about what's going on at that show

Sam Sethi: 17:42

a little bit later

James C: 17:42

a little

Sam Sethi: 17:42

on.

James C: 17:43

bit later on in this

Sam Sethi: 17:44

Now couple of weeks ago, Spotify launched their broadcast, a podcast platform with megaphone they bought At the end of 2021, a company called Hauschka out of Australia, which was owned by a guy called Rob Leventhal. The technology platform that they bought let radio broadcasters turn their existing audio content into on demand podcast content, and I used it for my radio station River Radio, and it worked like a dream. Today we're excited, they say, to share that the technology is now available for any publisher with a megaphone account. Well, we talked about this, James, about is this a trend, given that you've got both your radio hat and your podcast hat on? Do you see this being the next stage for radio people

James C: 18:30

I think it's certainly important for radio people to be getting the most out of the content that they produce. I mean, obviously, you know, their content is the thing that makes them unique. And so any way of taking the content that they have on the air and making that also available on podcast platforms makes a bunch of sense. So there's certainly a good reason why you should be doing that sort of thing.

Sam Sethi: 18:54

Well, we've reached out to Rob Lowenthal, and I asked him to tell me more about what's the new megaphone platform for broadcast. The podcast?

Rob Lowenthal: 19:04

Back in the day, probably seven or eight years ago, I was running a radio network here in Australia called Macquarie Radio. It was a talk radio network and I remember thinking that it was difficult to take on a content and then repurpose it. We publish it as a podcast. So I remember thinking that the producers were having a hard time and they were spending a lot of time after they finished the shift trying to make these content. And that's why broadcast podcast tools were built by us. It was really initially to help radio station producers save time making podcasts. Most sensible radio networks understood that they'd made content once, and what they should be doing was making that content work a little harder for them. So once, once it's gone out, live across the airwaves, repurpose that content and share it as a podcast as well, Obviously doesn't cost any more in terms of content creation. It's already been made once, but it gives you another opportunity to first of all appeal to your listeners who may have missed that show for the day. But second of all, make some money so make some more money digitally as opposed to the ads that you were previously running on your revenue radio broadcast. So, you know, in a very basic form, we built this technology to help radio broadcasters save time and make money and they make money right now through plugging into to magazine, repurposing this content, and then also plugging into what we call span the spot, the Spotify Podcast Audience Network, which is an advertising opportunity for them to have ads play against the podcasts that they've just taken from the on air environment in a new off air environment in a podcast.

Sam Sethi: 20:50

I think in that sense that's a great way because I think radio people, I mean, you know, we knew each other from when I had river radio. That second bite of the Cherry was always a very good way of telling. And also the way that people consume content on demand or live, it gave that opportunity for people to do that. And also the good thing is Spotify has just expanded this span network across Europe, so it's now available in more countries across Europe. So you know that on the back of it for monetization is this broadcast to podcasts, though only available now as a Spotify platform? So previously under Bush Co, obviously I knew that I could then take any radio signal I gave you in the schedule that we created that would then go to Apple, Google and Spotify. Has this now just become a Spotify tool?

Rob Lowenthal: 21:43

Oh no, definitely not. So it's still it's only available to make it find enterprise customers. It's available in the dashboard when they sign up so it's out of the box ready to go. You can trigger it yourself. You had the streaming information can be discussed, share cost, the like choice. You add that information into your dashboard and then you identify what kind of content you want removed from the feed. So once you've set up the time that you want it to record, you might want to record between six, eight and 9 a.m. Monday to Friday. You'll then identify. And we also want to remove silence. We want to remove music, we want to remove a bunch of different stuff. Or you might want to identify inaudible talents that are 25 megahertz. And when those tones play from the studio, you're going to you're going to use that to identify where it advertising, key point and so on should be. But importantly, it's available out of the box. You put your stream real information in and then it's live, it's recording and essentially you're also running advertising in that podcast as well, because those cue points where we replace on air ads and online music with cue points in the podcast, they're capable of receiving an ad from the spend network.

Sam Sethi: 22:58

Do those ads have a pre qualification in terms of numbers of downloads or lessons or anything? Is there a pre requirement or can is it, you know, once you've signed up you can create points within the recording that the ad will serve at that point. Is there a pre requirement on that ad?

Rob Lowenthal: 23:16

No, there's not. So there's anyone who's a megaphone enterprise customer who's also opted into the spend network for advertising can make the most of this. So and also the ads that will run in the content. So the podcasts themselves put the cue points, go in in places where the ad, the advertisements were on the radio broadcast, right? Maybe where music has been removed, the cue points will go in where there was metadata saying he's a that. So these various cue points are going in into the file and then the advertisements will run. The producer always has the chance to overwrite anything in that audio song, so they might log into the dashboard and look at their the audio file after the shift and remove some of those cue points. Everything that happens in this environment is non-destructive, so that whole recording is saved inside your mega sun dashboard. And the cue points are just identifying segments where the technology, the news is quite sophisticated audio technology where they think that the content should be replaced. But if a producer of a show says no, we don't think that content should be replaced, they can just remove those cue points and then everything will run as normal.

Sam Sethi: 24:31

Okay. And what's the plan going forward then? You know, where does this functionality go next? What do you think you can add that will enhance what you've got?

Rob Lowenthal: 24:41

I think in the first instance, we really want to now help broadcasters earn additional advertising revenue. Yeah, the two things that when I talk to broadcasters, the two things they're keen on doing are improving their audience share, growing their audience or improving advertising revenue. So we're always focused on the customer and we really want to help them improve their advertising. Revenue through spend is the next step. So we'll be looking at product features in that regard. But we really like the way that we've used certain AI technologies to identify, for example, different tones that come through from the broadcast studio. So you might set a tone that comes through at 30 megahertz for weather or 25 megahertz for traffic, and we can identify that content and change it or replace it. You may in the future even want to use some technology to insert automatic AI generated content as well into the next cue point. So that's the kind of thing that would build the foundations in the technology now that one day in the future, that's the kind of thing that you can do with this broadcast in real time.

Sam Sethi: 25:44

One of the things I think Spotify has got a really unique position in the world is that it is global, it is a music player, and it must have therefore licenses globally with all of the various bodies that take licensing fees, because that's one of the biggest things that, you know, we know trying to broadcast a podcast that had music in it onto the Internet, some people might just ignore it. Other people, for example, will allow that through. But if you were taking a radio show, let's say a breakfast show, which has got a lot of music in it, and you wanted to rebroadcast that through your platform today, all that music would have to be taken out because there's no license for that out of country anyway. Would you see Spotify being the one platform maybe that would provide that capable? Because you've got things like air ID and you've got things like the radio capability that they produced last year, a couple of years ago where so it feels like it's sort of edging its way towards this ability where actually, you know what put the whole of your show in. We'll deal with the licensing.

Rob Lowenthal: 26:57

Oh, look, it's an interesting idea. Certainly, I'm not aware of any anything that's proposed or on the right an app at the moment. But, you know, Spotify do have wonderful relationships around the world with musicians and artists. You know, they've got more than 500 million monthly listeners on platform, you know, monthly average users. So they certainly understand music. I think really what we're focusing on here is podcasting. I know that when I worked in radio industry that we did strike deals with the local licence agencies and the opera and so on to stream music online, and that required for the radio broadcasters to pay a separate fee. And I believe they can also opt into paying a separate say for when they want to publish music inside of podcasts. So there are different licenses and different legal regimes around the world. And so I wouldn't comment probably on how it works all around the world, but definitely an interesting and novel idea for the future.

Sam Sethi: 27:50

Okay, We'll watch this space. Robert. Okay. Tell us where we can go and find more about this new broadcast, a podcast solution that you've got.

Rob Lowenthal: 28:00

Yeah, absolutely. If you just go to the Mega Sun dot fan web page, there's a tile there to click on for broadcast the podcast, and that'll take you straight into all the information about broadcast, the podcasts and how the radio networks around the world can make the most of this technology.

James C: 28:16

Rob Lowe and from Spotify and talking about broadcast to podcast, he's not the only company to end up doing that, is he? Some

Sam Sethi: 28:27

No, we got a message from the wonderful Triton. Sharon Taylor reached out to us and said, Look, hey, you know, we've been doing this for a little while as well. So we thought, Oh, okay, well, I didn't. And so we reached out to Sharon. She's another Aussie mate. You know what? You log

James C: 28:45

She is another Aussie. This seems to be something weird and wonderful going on with Australians

Sam Sethi: 28:49

on.

James C: 28:50

in this particular area. But yes, Omni Studio is actually when it first appeared it was doing integrations with radio companies all

Sam Sethi: 28:58

It's

James C: 28:59

over the place and doing some

Sam Sethi: 29:00

really

James C: 29:00

really

Sam Sethi: 29:01

interesting.

James C: 29:01

interesting ideas. The original name for the company was 1 to 1 cast, and you caught up with Sharon Taylor to ask more about Omni Studio.

Sharon Taylor: 29:11

Triton is, I guess, the Airbus or Boeing to the audio industry. So for 16 plus years, Triton started out as a streaming provider. So it did all the radio streaming and digital streaming for much of the world and had this vision to take audio into the digital space out of terrestrial. And so today we do a pile of stuff. We obviously still have the streaming business, we have a streaming measurement, so we have a accredited streaming measurement system, such a measure streaming all around the world. We also have podcast metrics, which does the same for podcasting. We have the Omni studio product, which is where I came into Triton from for the podcast as distribution, hosting a huge monetization side of the company, including the world's first programmatic SSP for audio. And probably something else that I'm forgetting that my boss is going to be angry about, but that's a pretty good overview.

Sam Sethi: 30:03

Oh yeah, No, that's a pretty good overview. And if he is angry, just send it my way. Now, the other part of this was we were talking about on putting news of our broadcast podcast, right as a I suppose a trend in the industry that's been around and radio stations are slowly waking up to the idea that on demand podcasts of their live radio shows is a good thing to do. And you know, Triton then said, Hey, by the way, we do this. So what do you do?

Sharon Taylor: 30:33

Oh, great question. Okay, So yes, we are at Omni Studio. So before we were part of Triton in 2015, we built a way to capture a live stream and turn it into on demand content. And for a long time, our slogan was on air to online in seconds. We actually built it as a sneaky way, way back in the day, like we had a consumer app, the same as every podcast startup seems to have nowadays. And thinking that we would change the world for podcasts, discovery and consumption. And we needed more content in there, more timely, small bite sized pieces of content. So we originally started talking to radio stations back in 2014 to say, Hey, you have my breaks, and usually it's localized, it's relevant, it's hopefully interesting, entertaining. And so we built this live stream capture to enable the stream to be chunked up into the Omni Studio UI and then repurposed either in segments onto social media or as a full podcast into the RSS.

Sam Sethi: 31:32

And so the way that I would do it, so with my radio station that I had, we used woosh ka and they gave me a schedule. I put in the schedule of the programs. I then gave my MTP feed that was then converted by them into Apple, Google and Spotify. Is that exactly how you guys work or is there no differences?

Sharon Taylor: 31:53

Exactly. But it's similar. So we have a few different stream capture abilities. Like we work with most of the largest broadcasters around the world. And so a lot of them have like eight or less streams, for instance. And so we capture all of that we read out of the metadata case. So we have two different flavors of the agents, I guess you could say. We have one on premise, which is just a tiny executable file that sits in that the broadcast managers can go in and create a schedule. So to your point, I think we can at the moment, I think we've got maybe 20 different programs that record at any one given time with just like the recording agents, and you can tell it when to start and stop through key points or through silence detection in the mikes. And then you can either manually turn that and distribute it out to Apple or I think, 2018. Don't hold me to it. But a few years ago we built a way to automatically do it as well with this idea that, you know, most of the US radio stations, especially are quite time poor. And so if we could free them up from putting the show together, then they could. The theory was make more original content.

Sam Sethi: 32:57

Now, one of the things in podcasting putting your podcasting hat back on is the podcast namespace and something called the Live eight and take ten. If you've come across it, March, it's this ability for you to put the server basically that you mentioned or the RAM TB server into your RSS feed. And so apps that can read the RSS feed with the live contact support and say, Oh, that show is a podcast or it's a radio station and it's actually now going live at this moment and it lights up and tells people, Oh, okay, as a push notification, you are now live. And so for example, Adam Curry and Dave Jones do a Friday night show podcast index, the podcast show and everyone on various apps, fountain or curio cast or various other ones, pop verse, for example, you get a notification, Oh, that has just gone live. And it's like fundamentally the radio station telling you your show is now live. Now, I don't know if you've come across that at all.

Sharon Taylor: 34:04

No, I haven't, no. So we're familiar with the name project, although what they've stopped calling it that now and it's ESP. Thank you. Yes. And so we went to the transcript tag a little while ago. It's that's chicken and egg for us. Unfortunately, Like you want a wider majority of apps to do it, but I haven't looked into that. I will. Most of our clients have got their own apps, and so I suppose we kind of see ourselves as like Switzerland in that, which is they already have their app for live and podcast that they want to drive people to. But that's fascinating. That could be something really interesting to look at. Yeah, for them.

Sam Sethi: 34:40

We'll have an offline conversation, but where do you see the product evolving from your point? By ignoring what we've just talked about? Where is, you know, Triton's planned? Do you see more radio stations? Is that just the, you know, get a market share of radio stations or is there product features you see developing within the application itself?

Sharon Taylor: 34:59

Probably a little bit of both. I mean, market share for us is pretty good. Like I think we at any one point in time, like almost 2 million downloads every not downloads and recordings every 30 days. So coverage wise, we're good, obviously is more international markets wake up to podcasting. This is a nice entry way for them. They can get started with content that their listeners are already used to but move into on demand space. Refining things continually obviously is important. So I think a little bit of both.

Sam Sethi: 35:30

Yeah. So one of the things that Spotify having taken were scrolling to make a phone are adding the expand network, their advertising network on top. How do you offer your customers the ways of monetizing their content?

Sharon Taylor: 35:45

So we do a lot of direct sold. So we are very neutral. So as opposed to Spotify with our sales team, we don't want to compete with our own publishers on the platform. And so we provide them more of like a toolset. And then we really live and breathe that whole Switzerland neutral. And so we give them all of that power to do it themselves so they can replace the ad breaks with the stream and obviously automatically put in a marker for monetization for ads that they're selling that are more podcast specific as opposed to traditionally shouty radio ads, which need to be shouty to get your attention in the car. And then also they can hook into the programmatic exchange and so they can then monetize the show on both a live on demand and podcast method through that programmatic pipe.

Sam Sethi: 36:33

Cool. Now, lastly, YouTube, I mean, again, coming into the market video is being talked about. Spotify has video, Apple has video and of course YouTube itself. Would you ever see the product evolving from, let's say, radio to YouTube?

Sharon Taylor: 36:49

Yes. Yes, I think so. I mean, we already have clients that are publishing on YouTube. YouTube's had a bit of a battering in the press of late. I think with the podcast numbers like it hasn't become an overnight sensation and everyone seems to be like clubbing it a little bit.

Sam Sethi: 37:05

When James and I might be involved in clubbing it today as well.

Sharon Taylor: 37:08

That's realizing that some may like, stop, stop, it's already dead. I think I think that the podcast industry in general, we're really big on like shiny things. And you know, to your point, Apple has had video podcasts on their platform for a long while, and if people wanted to watch a podcast, they would have. Yeah, I think YouTube's really interesting, especially for broadcast. Like if you think like the top 5% of broadcasters already put shows out on YouTube, they already have like live streams they like, That is what we're trying to watch. I don't know that anyone wants to watch us as two individuals. No offense to either of us like doing this. You know, just be clear.

Sam Sethi: 37:50

Nobody wants to watch me and James. Yeah.

Sharon Taylor: 37:52

I mean, the beauty of podcasting is that I can go on and do interviews or interview other people and, like, I don't even know what this thing is behind me, but it doesn't matter. Like, it doesn't matter at all. But no, I mean, obviously radio stations are wanting to get into video like it's another audience. It's not cannibalistic, which I think a lot of people have been wary about that they don't want to go onto YouTube and then cannibalize their audience, but it is additive from what we're seeing in our tests at the moment. And so we'll be rolling out some YouTube stuff in the coming months, and we're pretty confident that a new audience will emerge for a very specific set of shows.

Sam Sethi: 38:29

Yeah, we're getting to see a lot of radio shows over in the UK. Talksport.com constantly are pushing out all of their radio shows as video shows Now and Global with newsagent, which is one of the bigger hits here in the UK, certainly pushing that out. So yeah, I can see a lot more of that now. Tell me if I wanted to find out more about Triton and I wanted to find out more about this broadcaster podcast. Where would I go? Sure.

Sharon Taylor: 38:53

You can hit Triton digital dot com. You could head to Omni Studio. Dot com you could just Google it and I'm sure will come up.

Sam Sethi: 39:02

Brilliant. Sharon Taylor, thank you so much.

Sharon Taylor: 39:05

Thank you, Sam.

Sam Sethi: 39:06

There we go, Sharon, again, somebody who will be in London with this as well. James,

James C: 39:11

Yes, absolutely. And looking forward to seeing Sharon. She's a good egg. There are a few other companies who are doing the string guys is another company who has been doing a bit of broadcast podcast as well. And I think the main thing and it's something that I will be talking about at the next radio conference that I'm at, which is Radio Days, North America, which is happening at the beginning of June. Neither Spotify nor Omnia Studio and Triton are talking about the late tag, which is the tag that allows your podcast to go live. And that to me is a pretty sort of weird thing. Why you wouldn't focus on that if you were focusing on a broadcast, a podcast platform, why you wouldn't be at least aware of the late tag even if you're not actually working on it right now?

Sam Sethi: 40:04

Spotify. I didn't expect to because that would mean they'd have to support the podcast name space and that's never going to happen. But with Sharon, it's interesting. She was interested to know more about it. So you never know. Triton might actually integrate. They already bought the transcript tags, so they've already got elements of the podcast namespace

James C: 40:21

Yeah,

Sam Sethi: 40:22

in their offering. So this is just be a nice little extension for them.

James C: 40:25

Yeah, indeed. And of course, you know, another place where you can be alerted when you go live is YouTube.

Sam Sethi: 40:32

there was a report from Ashley Carman last week saying podcasting on YouTube is a flop so far, which, you know, again, pretty good headline. Was it click bait, James? Or was it real? Was she just pointing out a failure of YouTube

James C: 40:48

No, I mean, it's certainly real, I think. I think Ashley has, you know, realised that there's public data available in pop track and there's public data available on YouTube. You know, YouTube shows the number of views and pod track. You can work out roughly what her shows are doing. So, for example, if you just look at NPR, for example, NPR is doing 168 million global downloads per month. So that's a pretty good number for their 4049 active shows. But if you have a look at their shows on YouTube, then they are doing 179 views. Nielsen is not 179 million, that's just 179. So yeah, the figures are not particularly fantastic. Now that said, Ashley had those figures. I shared pod news dailies, figures which are even worse. In fact, YouTube accounts for 0.9% of all of all consumption of the POD News Daily. So, you know, clearly, again, it's showing that, you know, podcasts about podcasts don't necessarily work too well on YouTube as you would kind of expect. We do even worse on Spotify, by the way. But when you have look at other shows, they're doing fantastically, aren't they?

Sam Sethi: 42:13

Well, they say they are. So following the reporting about dismal YouTube numbers, Folding Pocket contacted you with details of upfront costs. I'm Jordan which was launched last

James C: 42:22

Hmm.

Sam Sethi: 42:22

week. So for those who don't know that is actually a misleading piece of content right talkSPORT radio have been broadcasting all of their live radio shows on YouTube now for nearly two years. Simon Jordan's show, 10:00 in the Morning on talkSPORT is one of the biggest shows that talkSPORT has. And of course, he's already built up a massive audience on YouTube with that first show. So all they've done is launch the second show, which they've been promoting on talkSPORT for a gazillion weeks, to say, Simon's going to be doing an interview show with various talkSPORT, other presenters like Graeme Souness. No wonder you get an instant audience and a massive uplift. That is nothing to do with podcasting. So it's not a podcast

James C: 43:14

Well,

Sam Sethi: 43:14

and it's a video show that is translated from an existing audience that already was promoted heavily.

James C: 43:21

yeah, Well, there you go. This is why it's important to have people in lots of different countries so that they can actually tell you the hidden side of that particular story. Because I looked at that and I thought, well, you know, the number one sports podcast on Spotify right now, the number one on Apple Podcasts right now, but they've also got more than half a million views on YouTube. So they're doing really, really well with these, you know, very red faced looking men shouting about football.

Sam Sethi: 43:46

Yeah,

James C: 43:47

And yes, but I was unaware of the because I have

Sam Sethi: 43:52

yeah.

James C: 43:52

no interest in sports ball. And I know that you are you are a big fan of some of the Liverpool

Sam Sethi: 43:57

Yes,

James C: 43:58

so so clearly that's that's going to be a work but yeah so it's okay so that's clearly not necessary comparing like with like there.

Sam Sethi: 44:09

not at all. I thought I'd just point

James C: 44:11

Mm.

Sam Sethi: 44:11

that out for you,

James C: 44:11

Well well there you go. Always two sides of every story aren't there. I think it's way too early and I think it's also worth pointing out of course there are no podcasts on YouTube music in the UK either. I went through a week or so of using podcasts on YouTube music here because I have the technology to basically say to my phone, I want you to to all of my YouTube traffic through the US, place. And so then I got podcasts on YouTube music and and it's fine, but it's all right. It is nothing particularly clever about the YouTube music app. So and I should point out, just yesterday Google ended up promoting a brand new tablet or something, household tablet with a dock and during the launch of this new tablet

Sam Sethi: 45:02

oh yes,

James C: 45:03

that Google were presenting, Google, the company that owns YouTube, stood there and said,

Sam Sethi: 45:09

well,

James C: 45:09

well, what

Sam Sethi: 45:09

what

James C: 45:09

could

Sam Sethi: 45:09

would

James C: 45:09

you

Sam Sethi: 45:09

you

James C: 45:09

use

Sam Sethi: 45:09

use

James C: 45:10

this for? Well, you could use you could use it for Spotify to listen to podcasts. Brilliant. Another triumph for YouTube.

Sam Sethi: 45:17

Well,

James C: 45:18

So who knows what's going on there? Bless them. But still, you get.

Sam Sethi: 45:23

moving on, podcast protection. Look, it seems this week a

James C: 45:28

Oh,

Sam Sethi: 45:29

newsguard,

James C: 45:29

yes.

Sam Sethi: 45:29

a news, a reliability data services announced it's entering into podcasting today. I didn't really get this story. And then there's a secondary story, James, that says Barometer has announced a partnership with Newsguard to detect misinformation in podcast episodes. Now I just saw what are whatever. And then suddenly there was Mark from Captivate, and then it was Todd and Rob getting all heated. And then there was Dave Jackson and Daniel Taylor, and I was like, Wow, okay, I don't understand why everyone's getting heated other than there's someone checking the content of a podcast and determining if the advertising is appropriate. But everyone seems to be thinking this is a bad thing. So, James, tell me what's going on.

James C: 46:12

well, so apparently

Sam Sethi: 46:13

Well,

James C: 46:13

you've got journalists, you've got human beings at this company called Newsguard that are looking at news and information, podcasts based on five journalistic criteria. And those criteria are conveys news on important topics responsibly, whatever that is. Does not regularly convey false, unchallenged information, is not dominated by one sided opinion or discloses or does not have a political agenda and all of this kind of stuff. And so based on their judgment, a podcast receives a score from not ten, which is a risk level and is accompanied by a detailed nutrition label that explains the score. So as an example, they say that the Journal from the Wall Street Journal gets ten out of ten, gets a green label, and everybody's happy with that crooked media's pod Save America, which is the most certainly one sided. I've been listening to the UK version this week that receives a green nine out of ten score in terms of that particular show. But if you look at MSNBC's The Read out, for example, that gets only five out of ten and louder with Crowder, whatever that is, also gets a five out of ten score. So there are these anonymous journalists sitting in a room basically working out whether or not these particular podcasts are, good or bad or not, and giving them all scores. So I don't know anything about these journalists. I don't know where that where they're coming from in terms of that. But the thing that is more concerning know not just newsguard, these anonymous journalists just sitting there basically saying, is this any good or not is barometer who are using the newsguard research to train their AI so that their eye detection works out? Whether or not this episode is likely to contain a false narrative. So is it likely to be true or is it likely to be false? And they're using AI. I mean, at the end of the day, this is people's jobs we're talking about. This is people's revenue. We're talking about in some AI tool which is being trained by these journalists hiding away in a room doing their news reliability data service. I think this is a dreadful idea. And the worst thing that I would want being in a very different country is for some American journalists to be passing comment on the contents of this podcast, which is put together by an Australian and a Brit. Well, I mean to Brit, but you know what I mean. why the Americans think that they should be arbiters of truth? When you look at the clusterfuck of that particular country, who knows what's going on? So, yes, I've it's it's all a bit, rubbish,

Sam Sethi: 49:17

I

James C: 49:17

to

Sam Sethi: 49:17

just

James C: 49:17

be

Sam Sethi: 49:17

call

James C: 49:17

honest.

Sam Sethi: 49:17

it fake news.

James C: 49:18

But.

Sam Sethi: 49:19

That's easy. That seems to be the easiest way of getting around it. Now, look, This is like Google

James C: 49:23

Hmm

Sam Sethi: 49:23

echoing, and fundamentally they will change the output of their content in order to attract better advertising, in order to make more money, which then doesn't really take into account what the listener might want. It just happens to be what the advertiser wants.

James C: 49:39

hmm.

Sam Sethi: 49:39

And of course, you and I probably well I certainly you you latterly will say, well why don't you just use value for value in micropayments and then you don't need to worry about what the advertiser thinks because you can say what you like then. But hey, that's a little way down the road.

James C: 49:55

No, you could. You could turn around and say, well, this is. This is good. People will need to be more fair and balanced in order for them to get more ad revenue. And and this is a good thing. And, you know, and the more reliable and the more truthful a podcast is, then the better it's going to be in terms of in terms of ad revenue. But it's not necessarily going to work that way either. And of course, you know, as is usually the way with these tools, I can't find out whether or not they've vetted this particular show or any other shows that I do or the newsletter that I produce. I have no idea. And I'm not going to pay hundreds of dollars a month, which is which is what they want to find out whether or not I'm a reliable source. I just I just quite resent, anonymous journalists in a room working out who is this? Do we agree with this or not? I think it's a dreadful thing anyway.

Sam Sethi: 50:48

well, talking about spending, it seems that podcast outspending the USA is up 43.7% year on year. That sounds like a massive jump.

James C: 50:58

it does.

Sam Sethi: 50:58

Is that number right, James?

James C: 51:00

It could be right. SMI is a very well known and well resourced media analysis company. They're here in Australia as well. A spokesperson for the company said that there has not been any sort of pullback in advertising on podcasts due to economic pressures, which is quite a statement, particularly quite a statement when yesterday Odyssey's financials came out or Wednesday Odyssey's financials came out and podcast revenues fell in real terms. And The New York Times also published their quarter one financials and lower revenue from podcasts there as well. But no podcasts ad spending in the US apparently up 43% year on year. The interesting thing though is that podcasting is quite small in comparison to all of audio. If you look at all of online audio, podcasting is only 26%. So the majority is going to streaming audio things like a Spotify and that sort of thing. So perhaps there's additional opportunities for growth for podcasting

Sam Sethi: 52:06

Hmm.

James C: 52:06

there.

Sam Sethi: 52:07

Now, the winners of the 2023 Pulitzer Prize were announced. The winners included Gimlet Stolen Surviving. St Michael's is the first podcast series to win both a Pulitzer Prize and a Peabody Award in the same year. That sounds very impressive, but I mean, how does that translate into listener numbers and revenue, or does it not bother at all?

James C: 52:27

I mean, I think with all of these things, you know, this is a award given in terms of quality of journalism, and that doesn't necessarily instantly fit in terms of revenue or indeed success, you know, as you say. But I think, you know, that particular show, it's the first big award for Gimlet. And to be able to get both the Pulitzer and Peabody Award and the Dupont-columbia University Award as well in the same year, I think is a pretty good thing. It's a story about what happened in Canada and the the residential schools in Canada. It's well worth a listen as well. And there's a brand new show also starting on that as well fairly soon. I think, though, it's good news for podcasting because it does show the podcasting can be a very good place for investigative journalism.

Sam Sethi: 53:30

I just wonder how long before an wins a Pulitzer? That's all I would say. The Writers Guild are

James C: 53:35

Yeah,

Sam Sethi: 53:35

on strike

James C: 53:36

well, yes,

Sam Sethi: 53:36

over it. They're not happy bunnies

James C: 53:38

yes. No, indeed.

Sam Sethi: 53:40

yet.

James C: 53:40

I mean, they the

Sam Sethi: 53:41

I

James C: 53:41

writers

Sam Sethi: 53:41

mean, they

James C: 53:42

are on strike, but that only affects fiction podcasts currently. But yes, I think air is going to be is going to be an interesting thing. I have been playing today with Google Bard, which is available everywhere now and giving that a little a little play and seeing if I can save myself a little bit of time by using Google Bard. And it seems to be, you know, interesting. So who knows whether or not that will at some point end up winning awards. Hey, let's go on to have a look at some job news, bad news at Sony Music Entertainment, which has made some layoffs in its narrative podcast, team podcast, marketing and sales. They won't say quite how many people have gone, but, you know, worth while keeping an eye on that. Good news for Miranda Kennedy, though. She's joined Vox as executive producer of Today Explained, which is their daily news show. She's got considerable experience of that. She was supervising senior editor at NPR for up First and Morning Edition. So she knows a thing or two about that and West Well, or maybe it's wastrel I don't know. Anyway, she's left global. Why are you interested in that? Well, she was director of Podcast and Strategy for Global Player, and she's now going to work for Merlin Entertainments, which is an operator of an operator of visitor attractions. Mallard there on Funfairs and stuff like that.

Sam Sethi: 55:11

Madame Tussauds.

James C: 55:12

yes, strange old move, isn't it, from Director of Podcasts and Strategy to be Global

Sam Sethi: 55:18

Hmm.

James C: 55:18

Creative Director. But still, But there we go. So best of luck to her for that. But you

Sam Sethi: 55:25

But

James C: 55:25

know,

Sam Sethi: 55:25

that

James C: 55:25

she's

Sam Sethi: 55:25

was

James C: 55:25

no longer in podcasting. She's dead to us. If you're

Sam Sethi: 55:28

yes,

James C: 55:28

looking for a job. Pod news has podcasting jobs across the industry and across the world and they're free to post as well. It'll just take 2 minutes to add in Euro

Sam Sethi: 55:36

a

James C: 55:36

pod news dot net slash jobs.

Sam Sethi: 55:38

bit of an interesting fact about Madame Tussauds. Very quickly, have you ever wondered what happens to waxworks that are no longer popular?

James C: 55:45

I mean, presumably they melt them down

Sam Sethi: 55:47

You know, this is what super spooky. They take him to a warehouse

James C: 55:51

when

Sam Sethi: 55:52

in the city of London. I've been there, and they literally have them

James C: 55:55

I

Sam Sethi: 55:55

all. They're

James C: 55:56

read

Sam Sethi: 55:57

stacked up

James C: 55:57

that.

Sam Sethi: 55:57

in a warehouse. It

James C: 55:59

Oh,

Sam Sethi: 55:59

is

James C: 55:59

wow.

Sam Sethi: 55:59

very spooky.

James C: 56:00

Wow. So you can see, you know, Michael Heseltine in there and

Sam Sethi: 56:03

Yes.

James C: 56:03

John Gummer are a terrifying, terrifying thing.

Sam Sethi: 56:09

Yeah, they don't. They don't. Melton down? No, no, no.

James C: 56:12

Well,

Sam Sethi: 56:12

They keep them all.

James C: 56:13

there you go. You could just melt them down. You could melt down, you could melt down and use them as candles or something. Um, yes,

Sam Sethi: 56:22

Gwyneth Paltrow will be in there soon.

James C: 56:23

yes,

Sam Sethi: 56:24

Now.

James C: 56:24

yes. Anyway, moving on. Yes.

Sam Sethi: 56:30

Yes,

James C: 56:31

It's the stuff you'll find every Monday in the pop news newsletter. Here's where we do all of the tech talk. This new company called Snip Swan, it's a company that's existed for a while called snip two, which allows you to save podcast highlights. They've just added Android auto support, although it looks a bit clunky to be fair, but it does allow drivers to save podcast highlights while they're driving. So that looks good and very beautiful. Privacy friendly Android podcast app Antenna Pod. They have updated the app. It's available now on Google Play version three, which has a brand new homescreen, which is a really nice home screen. It gives you lots of choices of what to listen to next. It's got some good swipe swipe actions. I used it for a couple of hours and it was and it was very nice. So if you are looking for a new podcast app, unfortunately hasn't got very much of the new podcast namespace in it yet, it's worthwhile giving you to go anyway for Android devices. It's on tried as well. Antenna Pod is worthwhile taking a peek at.

Sam Sethi: 57:39

James. Still no news of that Apple podcast for Android

James C: 57:41

No, still no news of Apple podcasts for Android. I mean they are going to do it because because they're not stupid and every every week that they don't launch it. Of course, Spotify gets even more of an unassailable lead. And so, of course, they're going to be launching Apple Podcasts on Android soon. They must do, mustn't they? But still, no news of that.

Sam Sethi: 58:04

Well good news James for Apple baby so at Google IO they announced Webassembly or Watson which means you can take native apps and put them directly into the browser within the Android app. So maybe they could just use a little bit of webassembly and take the app and make it a native app on Android. There you go.

James C: 58:26

Well, maybe, although who knows? I mean, that would mean that Apple Podcasts would need more than one engineer which says they appear to have they appear to have by the by the looks of the of the speed of all of the updates they appear to have. Yeah. One engineer there's a new version of iOS coming out I think next week. I think they they've just they've they've just announced it. We don't know quite what's new in terms of Apple Podcasts in there but you can you can bet that there'll be a very small amount of new stuff in there.

Sam Sethi: 58:58

16.5. Right. Last week on the Pod news show with Dave and Adam, they talked about something called Dynamic changing value splits and they demonstrated

James C: 59:09

Yes,

Sam Sethi: 59:09

on the show, which was basically the idea of playing music in the middle of a podcast and being able to have this split change based on the value time currently. And they did that last week

James C: 59:22

they did. Yes. And thank you for calling

Sam Sethi: 59:24

and

James C: 59:24

it the Pod news show. It is, of course, the Podcasting 2.0 show, but I'm sure that won't mind being called the Polynesia anyway. Yes.

Sam Sethi: 59:31

that's true.

James C: 59:32

And very clever. It was to if you were listening in a supporting app, of course, then as soon as Joe Martin came on and started warbling at us about something or other than if you were to boost or if you were just listening and and paying using streaming stats automatically, he Joe Martin would get some which is really neat. So if you think of how a music show might work in the future, you might be playing, you know, ten, 12 tracks in an hour. And as you play, the musician gets the money as their particular song is playing so very cool and seemed to work quite nicely, didn't seem to break anything, which is always a good plan. So that was a smart test to hear. It wouldn't have worked if it was live, but it did work in terms of on demand. They had a very of a very good sounding guest this week on the podcasting 2.0 board board meeting as well. Sam. Sam Sethi

Sam Sethi: 1:00:45

Oh, yes,

James C: 1:00:46

It was you,

Sam Sethi: 1:00:47

yes,

James C: 1:00:47

yes.

Sam Sethi: 1:00:48

yes

James C: 1:00:48

You

Sam Sethi: 1:00:48

I

James C: 1:00:48

were very good.

Sam Sethi: 1:00:49

Oh, thank you very much. Yes. I thought well, take everything you've taught me and I thought I'd just regurgitate it. Three easy.

James C: 1:00:55

Yes. Yes. It was always good to hear Adam criticising your, your editing

Sam Sethi: 1:01:01

Yeah.

James C: 1:01:01

and that's always,

Sam Sethi: 1:01:03

Well

James C: 1:01:03

that's

Sam Sethi: 1:01:03

we

James C: 1:01:03

always

Sam Sethi: 1:01:03

handed

James C: 1:01:03

a good

Sam Sethi: 1:01:03

over

James C: 1:01:03

thing.

Sam Sethi: 1:01:04

to, you know, that's why we handed it over to you. Let's be clear. Yes.

James C: 1:01:09

It's very, very good to hear that. So but it was, it was a good show. So so hurrah. And it's really good to hear that. Adam Well, and, and, you know, all of the quite horrifying work that he's having done, it's good to hear that he was certainly sounding well on the show. So good for him.

Sam Sethi: 1:01:29

well, I'd say kids don't touch drugs. Now, moving on.

James C: 1:01:34

No idea where that's come from. But anyway, moving on, Headline has announced that it has created six and a half million short form podcast videos so far. You probably know Headliner for the big long form shows that they do on YouTube. So if you for example, were listening on to this show on YouTube, then that's done by headliner and that's why it looks so beautiful. But they also do short form videos as well. Apparently those work really, really well on social media, so that is good. And they are working on something on WordPress.

Sam Sethi: 1:02:09

Yeah, I mean, they've had this product for a while called Disco, which was the ability to take content and link it. But now they've made that free. So they're introducing disco free. It's a WordPress plug in. And what it allows you to do, it's easy to use as a podcast discovery until they say so you add that to your WordPress install and what it will look at is the text within your blog posts and it'll contextually try and find a relevant podcast or episode to place at the bottom a bit like one of those Tom BOLO type things where they have snippets of

James C: 1:02:44

Oh

Sam Sethi: 1:02:44

audio.

James C: 1:02:44

yeah.

Sam Sethi: 1:02:45

So it's going,

James C: 1:02:46

Taboola. Yeah,

Sam Sethi: 1:02:47

yeah,

James C: 1:02:47

yeah, yeah, yeah,

Sam Sethi: 1:02:48

so it's going

James C: 1:02:48

yeah,

Sam Sethi: 1:02:48

back against your own content to find podcasts that you might have done that you can then promote alongside your own content,

James C: 1:02:56

yeah. Well, there's a thing that's worthwhile keeping an eye open for that. Also worthwhile keeping an eye open for what Google IO announced. They announced all kinds of stuff to do with AI because of course they did, didn't they? And it's tedious and dull, but they did also announce a thing called baseline, which

Sam Sethi: 1:03:15

which

James C: 1:03:15

is very

Sam Sethi: 1:03:15

is very

James C: 1:03:15

good

Sam Sethi: 1:03:15

good

James C: 1:03:15

if you're a web developer in

Sam Sethi: 1:03:16

in

James C: 1:03:17

that. I mean, what they seem as if they've basically done is that they have bought Confused.com, which is a really easy and simple and straightforward, you know, can I use the

Sam Sethi: 1:03:29

the

James C: 1:03:29

mark tag?

Sam Sethi: 1:03:30

term.

James C: 1:03:30

Can use the bold tag. And they've basically

Sam Sethi: 1:03:33

Basically

James C: 1:03:34

launched a thing called baseline, which flags web

Sam Sethi: 1:03:38

what

James C: 1:03:38

features that developers can rely on all browsers supporting. So they say, and they're working with Mozilla's Firefox, Apple Safari and Microsoft's Edge. While Microsoft's edge is much the same as Google Chrome anyway. But you know, the other two aren't. But yeah, so baseline looks quite interesting. I've noticed it's already live on the Mozilla website,

Sam Sethi: 1:04:00

websites.

James C: 1:04:01

so that's all very smart. And do you think there are sort of things that podcasting can learn out of that?

Sam Sethi: 1:04:10

Yeah, I mean the Podcasting Standards project, you know, great that it's announced, great that it's launched and now I want to see something coming out of it more than just

James C: 1:04:18

Hmm.

Sam Sethi: 1:04:18

a couple of tags and a logo. And again, I think I've been banging this drum and you know, we want the wall of fame or shame, whatever you want to call it, but something similar to Can I use this or now baseline where, you know, the Podcasting Standards Project says, right, here's all the hosts, here's what they currently support and here's what they don't support. And just let's get a table of this because right

James C: 1:04:42

Well, that

Sam Sethi: 1:04:42

now.

James C: 1:04:42

would be great, wouldn't it?

Sam Sethi: 1:04:43

Yeah,

James C: 1:04:43

Yeah.

Sam Sethi: 1:04:43

right now, you know, if you're an app developer, you're going, well, I don't know if bus perhaps bought this that I have RSS support that blah

James C: 1:04:50

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 1:04:50

blah blah. It would just be

James C: 1:04:51

Now

Sam Sethi: 1:04:51

really

James C: 1:04:51

you

Sam Sethi: 1:04:51

quick

James C: 1:04:52

were you

Sam Sethi: 1:04:52

and cool.

James C: 1:04:52

were banging on about this last week

Sam Sethi: 1:04:54

I was.

James C: 1:04:54

and and I was saying yes. And our table would be a good idea. You've reminded me that Nick from Vizzy has done quite a lot of work on chat to support in various apps as well, and has sent me a spreadsheet which still haven't done anything with. So I really ought to be doing something with that as well. But I do think that there's something there and I love the idea of putting that into the podcasting standards projects. You

Sam Sethi: 1:05:17

Hmm

James C: 1:05:17

know, if if we are saying that, for example,

Sam Sethi: 1:05:21

example

James C: 1:05:22

episode images are a good thing, then let's name and shame the the

Sam Sethi: 1:05:26

apps

James C: 1:05:26

apps that

Sam Sethi: 1:05:27

that

James C: 1:05:27

don't support it,

Sam Sethi: 1:05:28

exactly

James C: 1:05:29

that don't support it properly for all shows, I think that that would be a good idea. So yeah, I mean it would be great to hear something from the Podcasting Standards Project. I covered their launch PR and that's it. I haven't heard a sausage out of that group since. I do hope it's not going to go away because I think it's really, really needed. So, you know, be good to see a little bit more from them. One final thing in terms of tech and I think this is pretty cool is Auphonic, which many people use to tidy their audio up. And I'm told that Buzz Sprout, who uses it under the hood as well for their magic mastering, they've added an automated silence cutting service. So if you have great big gaps of silence in your podcast, it will automatically cut those out, which is nice.

Sam Sethi: 1:06:23

Yeah now I understand how that works because D script does it as well and various other companies do it. But often you've said Overcast does this as well. But That's an app, so that must do it in post-production. So how does overcast it

James C: 1:06:38

Yeah. So overcast and pocket casts and various other things have a silence scape service in those apps as well. I think reading the press release from Auphonic, I think they're basically doing this as a, you know, big gaps for if you're in the production process. So it will basically get rid of those bits where you went off to answer the door and do all of that. So it will get rid of all of those automatically. I would personally like when I upload a podcast to a podcast platform, it spots that there's, you know, more than 5 seconds of silence and goes, Are you sure that this is properly edited or indeed edits, edits those out? Anyway, I've been caught out in the past doing that and it'd be quite nice if that were the case. So yeah, but you know, always good to see more of these tools appearing to automatically catch mistakes and stuff like that from these, you know, on these services.

Jingles: 1:07:40

podcast events on the Pod news, weekly review

James C: 1:07:45

Well, in events and awards this week, the German speaking public can vouch for the Deutscher podcast prize. You've until May the 28th, just do a Google search for that if you know how to spell that. And if you don't know how to spell it, you're not German and you can't. About the Dupont-columbia Awards are open for submissions as well. If you've done what they call important work from July the first last year to the end of June this year, that features deep original reporting in the public interest, then you should be entering those awards. They are very prestigious in the UK and very prestigious in the US. Moving on to events, I'm looking forward to going to Auckland. You always know when it's time for me to go to Auckland because there's there's more massive floods and the Government has just announced an emergency in Auckland. And so of course I'm going to be flying in to that on Friday. So of course I'm going to be flying in to that today. So that's going to be good fun. But the New Zealand Podcast summit is tomorrow, Saturday in Auckland. There's all kinds of other people there. Tim Watkin from our NZ, who's a great chap, Richard Palmer, is making the trip from Sydney who works at Omni Studio alongside Sharon Taylor as well. And there will be a pod news Podcastone the Goodie Bag, which is a good thing. Other things going on podcast movement in Denver, of course, in August, the British Podcast Awards in September. Ready it is North America in Toronto. In June, the Dubai Pod Fest is returning next week as well. And of course, the podcast show 2023 in London in just a couple of weeks time.

Sam Sethi: 1:09:36

Yeah, I basically bumped into Darby, Doris. I was at the podcasting pod pitch at City University. Darby was one of the judges, and I thought I'd ask him about what he's doing with Allison, but also more importantly, what they're doing on the rise up stage at podcast show

Darby Dorras: 1:09:55

for those who don't know us, we are one of the UK's biggest and leading audio production companies, so we're sort of a long standing audio company in the UK and we have a sort of heritage in radio. We still make a ton of radio and that's kind of a longstanding bit of the business. Been there for a very long time, but obviously podcasting is what we moved into and became the sort of the largest kind of growth area of the business. And we make, I suppose the best way to kind of carve up our podcast is into three, three buckets really. So we make a huge amount of kind of commissioned content. So for the big commissioners, like sitting about with French and Saunders for four audible and a ton of stuff for them all 28 days later, last year was a kind of brilliant commission about the menstrual cycle with India, and that was for BBC Radio, for BBC sounds, you know, and then our next bucket, if you like, is for branded. And we still make an absolute ton of kind of branded podcasts direct with brands with agencies. And that's a still a really important part of the business. And then the final bucket is our originals. So we launched our first Listen original towards the end of last year, which perhaps will come on to, which is a program called Unboxed which in shorts and Baga. So yeah that's the way to, to summarise the content we do and then I think that we make, we make a huge variety really of genre and format. So hopefully some of those I've referenced give you a sense of that. But we make love On the morning after the official ITV podcast remake Built to Thrive with Doctor Wrong and Chastity, which is a daily wellness podcast for Amazon Music Wondery you know, a real kind of breadth of content across the kind of entertainment and narrative kind of opportunities.

Sam Sethi: 1:11:34

Know a lovely wide selection there in the slate. How do people because obviously last night we were up pot pitch, which is basically students pitching an idea about a new podcast they might like to cram know with a bit of fun. But in the real world, how does somebody approach, say, listen with an idea, you know, and what do you look for when you are commissioning?

Darby Dorras: 1:11:57

Yeah, so we're always having conversations and I think that it doesn't just have to come to me. Like I'm always open to hearing ideas and I'm very available on all the sort of obvious social platforms and via email, which is just listen, don't cut it, okay? So always open to approaches and they're kind of constant, to be honest with you, which is a good thing. And then know they're not going to be viable. That was going to go forward. But I would encourage other, you know, other producers out there as well to kind of have conversations with our CEO on all of my exact team. And it's wildly different to where it was three, four or five years ago. And I think we all know that their sort of success stories that happened then, that probably wouldn't happen in the same way now. And I think that's, of course, like the full spectrum in terms of, you know, the kind of content that's out there. So so yeah, I think we're really tough on them, but we're really open to kind of those conversations and they're the fun of the job, which is having those conversations with people, journalists and freelancers and all sorts of other kind of entities, if you like, that bring us ideas or bring us a kernel of something and then kind of working on that, you know, but it's a slow process. In all honesty, I think probably it's slower now than it ever has been because everyone's tough on ideas and commissions are a hugely important there's probably fewer of them than there were. You know, people are going kind of a bit slower and going bigger, I would say. And so we're doing that too. And I think, you know, that's across the board. So yeah, but very much keen to hear from people always. And you know, so from the job.

Sam Sethi: 1:13:19

How do you metric success then? I mean what is success to you? Is it download, is it, is it revenue generated, Is it recommissioning from a third party, a brand or, you know, a commissioning agency? What does success mean to you?

Darby Dorras: 1:13:34

Yeah, that's a great question that I think for us, because you know, what's different about our top podcast organisations is with those buckets I was talking through, we've got so many bits to listen. I think that's part of our success really is that gives us ultimately flexibility to be able to kind of pivot when the market's doing something or not doing something. And so therefore, you know, for us about the growth of the business, we've got to be commercially viable. But it's also about, you know, the optics of stuff, isn't it? It's about kind of going actually, you know, here's a podcast that we might want to make because we think that it's creatively ambitious and that's a kind of direction that we want to put ourselves in and might not be the most commercially viable. On the flip side, we might look at something and go, That's not exactly the most exciting thing that we're going to make, but we're going to make it because actually that's an important part of the business and it will be, you know, something that's kicking off a margin and helping fund other parts of the company and the team and everything else. So I think that it's a hard question to answer, to be honest with you. I think success is kind of means lots of different things. And I think we look at it, we look at all of those options depending on what the thing is on the table really, and kind of go, you know, who's funding it as well. If it's an original that we're self-funding, we kind of, you know, we're looking at that in a different way. It's something that might be commissions, you know, So all of those things I think, are probably probably not kind of new for most people listening to this. I think that's the process you'd expect. I think it's about, yeah, just kind of examining any idea and any commissioning kind of thinking. Is it right for us? Should we be doing it for any or all of those reasons really?

Sam Sethi: 1:15:08

I just wanted to ask, you've touched on YouTube and TikTok. I mean, first of all, you know, what are your thoughts on YouTube now getting into the podcasting world? I put that in air quotes. And secondly, do you find a difference in the audiences that come to you because, you know, want to lean back, medium, want to you know, walk away background, medium, the audio part. So yeah, first of all, what are your thoughts on YouTube? And secondly, what's the different audiences now that you've had success within those three mediums?

Darby Dorras: 1:15:38

Yeah, yeah. Really interesting, isn't it? It's a really interesting time. I think that, yeah, it's just an evolution really of podcasting and where it's been and where it's going. And I think there's that conversation that certainly I've been having a lot. I think everyone's having at the moment about what is a podcast, reassessing what it really means to be a podcast and you know, the conversation around the RSS and the conversation around YouTube and, and I think that I don't think there's really a clear answer yet on that is my own. It is my honest answer. You know, I think that YouTube are clearly really important in the game. This massive audience. They're different demographic to, let's say, Apple podcasts when you look at Apple or, you know, other DSPs. So yeah, it's kind of a huge opportunity really. I think that's how we see it is real opportunity, I think is about understanding the role of video in podcasting. And actually there isn't one one answer to that because the role of video is something like a box where we're releasing full length video episodes on YouTube, but also kind of native in Spotify as well is entirely different to a video strategy that we might apply for narrative box set mini series six. You know, it's going to be wildly different. And so I think it's about knowing really the role of video in podcasting, understanding the product that you're creating and the brand and how people are going to engage with it, where they're going to engage with it. And that does come back to to the target audience and the audience you're expecting. I think it's about understanding the role of video, understanding about the content you're creating and that understanding about the audience you're likely to attract, wanting to attract or then our attracting because that your second part your question does.

Sam Sethi: 1:17:17

Yeah. No I mean look I think all three have a different feel. I mean you know, I'm a consumer of three platforms and I have them in different modes when I'm I'm do I wouldn't want to have a long format talk that wouldn't make sense. I know you can do longer formats. It just doesn't feel it's much more of like making a cup of tea flicked three or four videos, whatever it may be. YouTube may be when I'm, you know, want to sit back and lean back into something and just like just let something longer format play out at me and mean, you know, a bit like a TV show. And then audio is probably what I'm walking the dog or I'm gardening or something else. I it's time and place and context for me with the different mediums. In terms of your monetization, is it advertising driven then? Is that the monetization that you do today? Is there subscription driven? What's the two plans?

Darby Dorras: 1:18:04

Yeah, Yeah, it is, Yeah. So it's advertising driven But yeah, subscription as well. I think we're just again we're sort of Yeah. Mindful of creating something that, that feels right for the audience and right for the platforms that they're inhabiting and the sort of the way the majority of the audience for anything that we're creating live, if you like, So I think that subscription is continues to be a, you know, a really important kind of growth area of the industry and we're sort of very mindful of that. But I think it's about, you know, as has been proven really when you look at the sort of subscriptions that dating while in podcasting, it's about creating proper value for the audience, isn't it? It's about creating proper kind of additional content as opposed to what there is, quite a lot of which is kind of just carving off a bit or a bit of the kind of stuff that hit the cutting room floor and shoving it behind a paywall. So I think again, it comes back to kind of deep understanding of your audience and what do they actually want, Why are they there in the first place? And have you kind of created a proper sense of community and therefore then they might be interested in paying for something? So I think, yeah, it's about knowing the role of subs. Again, I think in podcasting is key.

Sam Sethi: 1:19:06

Now, let's move on to the podcast show, 24th, 25th May. There is a preview on the 23rd. It's very interesting. I went there last year. I think you were there last year. They did a great job. Jason in the team. I'm really looking forward to this year's event. I think it's going to be even bigger and better, you know, and one of the things that that stood out for me was the fact that listeners got this massive, great big stage you've got I don't know how many speakers on the stage, but it's significant. What first of all, why have you taken such a big presence and gone for this big stage? I mean, what is this? I then talk me through some of the people that we might be able to see there.

Darby Dorras: 1:19:45

Yeah, absolutely. So I think, yeah, you know, as you said, I was there last year as you were. And I think that we know I definitely and the rest of us that listen recognize how great it was really. I think the event itself just sort of caught the moment. I think really? Wow. Which was they chose not to do it in the past and launched it in the pandemic as they'd originally planned. Had that not happened and launch it after the pandemic, when actually I'm sure you probably felt the same. But most of us have been locked away for a long time. And, you know, that hadn't been something of that scale for the podcasting industry. In the podcast industry had evolved and grown during that time as well. So it was just great. Loads and loads of people, lots of young aspirational creators, lots of people in the industry you have seen for years, you know, and made an absolute ton of kind of connections and, you know, networking and everything else out of it, which is all good and healthy. So I think that yeah, very excited obviously about this year's event. And so yeah, I want to make a bit more of a statement really to put listen at the front and center of that. And yeah, I was very aware of the rise up stages last year and so we thought really carefully about this and I think yeah, totally through the overarching theme really of what we're doing with this stage, because I think that you know, you've been to as many of these events as I have, and you often do just hear different versions of the same conversation had in different places around the world. And I think it's, you know, trying to be as distinctive as possible for anyone who's speaking there. So we sort of, you know, we're doing a session with LinkedIn, which is sort of all about understanding why that platform can actually be broadly and for sort of social strategy for podcasters. We've got a session which I'm chairing, which is all about sort of the intersection between TV and podcasting and the creator economy, which is got Sky on it, it's got Netflix, it's got India, who's our host for the morning after. We've got the only appearance from YouTube, the podcast show this year.

Sam Sethi: 1:21:39

Can I have question Mum please?

Darby Dorras: 1:21:41

But I think there's going to be a few people in the audience on that for that one. Right?

Sam Sethi: 1:21:45

You need some you need a few bodyguards for Alison. No, you work well with Christian to.

Darby Dorras: 1:21:49

Where we can a whisker out the back and into a taxi as soon as it finishes. But yeah so so Alison Lomax and the Dave YouTube UK appearing with us alongside the brilliant Patricia Bright and Jordan on that panel And then my my partner Joshua at least listens and they chairing that one so that'll be yeah a brilliant session not to be missed and then yeah a really great one on sort of just asking that that question, you know, are creators really the sort of future of podcasting and that's with Christ Beverley, who's a fantastic journey. ANNOUNCER From, from Spotify and Jordan hosting that one, Martha Beano, who's from Business Insider and will know the will and a who's who's that brilliant podcast who recently knocked Joe Rogan off the top of the charts. So yeah, some great sort of, you know, like I say, a kind of great mix of talent of commissioners and other people who are sort of really kind of interesting, exciting in the podcast space right now and kind of the cutting edge and the kind of fun. What I hadn't mentioned was one which really hits on what you were saying earlier, really around the role of video and that kind of intersection between video and audio and what is a podcast any more. We've got a sort of session on shows versus podcasts and yeah, kind of how creators are turning the idea of podcasting on its head, which is is going to be great with Shelby from UTA and with and RJ and Jordan as well. So trying to remember I don't think I've missed any of them, but there's a lot there's a.

Sam Sethi: 1:23:21

Lot of ones I can say. You've covered yourself in glory here. Okay. You won't have a phone call. Say, Oh, why wasn't I mentioned?

Darby Dorras: 1:23:28

I'm not doing any. Well, because either you forgot to mention it. No, it's really rich. She's just excited about it, to be honest with you. It's going to be fun. It's going to be varied. And I really hope that we can offer up a lot of insights from people who are doing things a bit differently, doing stuff outside of podcasting that informs it. Yeah, I kind of, you know, I hope that be useful for anyone who comes down. So yeah, we'll be there and that's on the 24th. So we're taking the stage for the whole the first day. Yeah.

Sam Sethi: 1:23:53

Brilliant. Now we're looking forward to all of those. Last but not least, congratulations as well. One of your staff just won a thanks to watch in pod. What was that?

Darby Dorras: 1:24:00

Yeah. Yeah. The burning in Georgia out of those. So she's. Yeah, she only joined us last year last summer and she is a face to watch. Yeah. She's fantastic. She's doing all sorts for us. She's done the recent series of Love Island's the morning after and another great one that she's just polished off with the latest series of Doctor Hunger and Chastity Wellness series that we make daily dining while the series for Wondery Amazon, which co built to thrive. And so she's just literally just wrapped up in that. She just got into a really exciting narrative production pre-production at the moment. So she's fantastic. Really pleased to see her in there today and she actually deserves it. And there's been a long thread of celebration, as you can imagine, on the the internal listen emails and Slack celebrating just today. So we'll get some champagne later.

Sam Sethi: 1:24:48

Okay. No expense spared. Well done. David Doris, director of Content at Listen, thank you so much. Now if someone wants to get hold of you or get to find out more of what's on your slate or just to find out what's going on with the podcast show, where would they go?

Darby Dorras: 1:25:02

Yeah, so look for, listen and all the obvious places come to us. Listen, don't go to UK or find us on LinkedIn or all the other socials. We're there and you can do the same with me as well. You know, I'm ever present everywhere, all things to all people that I'm around. So yeah, I find me if I'm on LinkedIn or somewhere or drop me, drop me an email, which is just Darby. Listen, I'm really happy to always have to talk to people in the podcast industry. Definitely. And yeah, hope to see a lot of people download the podcast show, come have a chat, I'll be around.

Sam Sethi: 1:25:32

Brilliant. Darby. Thank you so much Peter soon.

Darby Dorras: 1:25:35

Thanks. I'm.

James C: 1:25:35

Darby Taurus from Listen. Looking forward to seeing him at the podcast show in just a couple of weeks time in London. And don't forget about our events to Pod News Live. The next one is in Salford on the 13th of June. If you don't know where that is, it's next to Manchester. If you don't know where that is, it's the north of England. If you don't know where that is, just off Europe. But they don't like talking about it. On June the 13th, you can grab tickets for that pod news dot net slash live. And also pod news live in London is happening on the 27th of September. Can we talk about the venue yet for

Sam Sethi: 1:26:13

yes,

James C: 1:26:13

that?

Sam Sethi: 1:26:13

we can confirm it's going to be the White City Soho House venue, which is the old BBC White City Studios. So.

James C: 1:26:23

Yes, old TV centre.

Sam Sethi: 1:26:25

MM

James C: 1:26:25

So if you fancy a wander around the old television centre, then we can guarantee you you'll be able to get into at least one room of that.

Sam Sethi: 1:26:35

Oh, it's good. It's

James C: 1:26:36

That's

Sam Sethi: 1:26:36

like

James C: 1:26:36

where

Sam Sethi: 1:26:36

I

James C: 1:26:36

we

Sam Sethi: 1:26:36

think most

James C: 1:26:36

are

Sam Sethi: 1:26:37

of those are some of these people's private flats now. James

James C: 1:26:39

indeed.

Sam Sethi: 1:26:39

I don't think we could really guide

James C: 1:26:40

70

Sam Sethi: 1:26:40

anybody around

James C: 1:26:40

people.

Sam Sethi: 1:26:41

it.

James C: 1:26:41

Yes, some of these people's people's private flats where I used to go to the occasional, the occasional depressing meeting. So I do hope that they've made those rooms a little bit nicer. But anyway, 27th of September that's happening Pod news dot net slash alive to find out more information about that. And there are more events both paid for and free at Pod news. If you're organising something, you should tell the world about it too. It's free to be listed. Pod News Dot net slash events.

Jingles: 1:27:09

Booster. Graham Booster Graham. Corner Corner Corner on the Park News Weekly Review.

James C: 1:27:16

Oh, it's our favorite time of the week, Sam. It's time for a booster Graham Corner. And this is an exciting message that we've got from Chad F isn't it?

Sam Sethi: 1:27:28

Yes, he says. Sending a test boost from podcast guru on iPhones. So he sent

James C: 1:27:33

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 1:27:33

his 21126

James C: 1:27:35

Yes. And that basically means that podcast guru is just getting ready to turn on Booster Graham's and support for streaming. So that's going to be a very exciting thing. So thrilled the podcast guru, which is a really nice looking app. It's on iOS and on Android and they're going to be supporting Boost to Graham's on both of those. Who knows? It might even be out as we speak, but well worth a peek. Thank you, Chad, for your 2112 SATs. That's good of you. Kyran from the Mere Mortals podcast. My second chat with Dave came out this week. We finally got to the heart of what's making him sick all of the time. I'm presuming this is Dave Chance,

Sam Sethi: 1:28:16

indeed.

James C: 1:28:16

but we also had some fun value for value chat and why everyone is pumped for music and he's given us four, three, two, one. It's Kyran.

Sam Sethi: 1:28:24

Thank

James C: 1:28:24

Thank

Sam Sethi: 1:28:24

you so

James C: 1:28:25

you

Sam Sethi: 1:28:25

much

James C: 1:28:25

so much.

Sam Sethi: 1:28:25

for that.

James C: 1:28:25

And the Mere Mortals podcast is well worth a listen. Carr improperly does his research

Sam Sethi: 1:28:30

He does.

James C: 1:28:30

and there's a show with you

Sam Sethi: 1:28:32

Yeah. It's

James C: 1:28:32

and there's a show with me. If you go back so well, worth a listen to that as well.

Sam Sethi: 1:28:39

Silas on a Linux set. What if you did a comparison chart between advertising solutions comparing each host sliced company's programmatic solution, how high the CPM is also compared to averages for host straight ads or things like bus ads. Whereas an in-between or maybe an article could be helpful for people who want to start podcasting with the final goal of financially sustaining themselves with the podcast. I'm going to put that through chat

James C: 1:29:05

I

Sam Sethi: 1:29:05

JPT to understand that in a minute. But anyway, that's a 3000.

James C: 1:29:09

know, I know.

Sam Sethi: 1:29:10

That's

James C: 1:29:11

I know exactly

Sam Sethi: 1:29:12

good.

James C: 1:29:12

what sellers on Linux or stylus on Linux is saying. Yes, absolutely. Yes. That would be an amazing comparison. Let's focus firstly on the comparison of the functions and features that podcast hosts and podcast apps have. And then yeah, absolutely. Let's move on to

Sam Sethi: 1:29:31

Oh,

James C: 1:29:31

EdTech as well. Why?

Sam Sethi: 1:29:32

right.

James C: 1:29:32

Why

Sam Sethi: 1:29:32

Got

James C: 1:29:32

not?

Sam Sethi: 1:29:32

it. Got

James C: 1:29:33

Why

Sam Sethi: 1:29:33

it.

James C: 1:29:33

not? What could what could possibly go wrong There

Sam Sethi: 1:29:35

Mm,

James C: 1:29:36

about.

Sam Sethi: 1:29:36

Yes.

James C: 1:29:37

Yes. So I just thank you so much for that

Sam Sethi: 1:29:39

Thank

James C: 1:29:39

and thank

Sam Sethi: 1:29:39

you.

James C: 1:29:40

you for the sense as well. We much appreciate them. And Jean Bean as well. Mad props to Oscar for the implementation of transcripts within Fountain. They look really

Sam Sethi: 1:29:49

Good.

James C: 1:29:49

good, I think. Jean Bean, you're talking about a beta that you shouldn't be talking about yet because I don't think they're launched yet. But when they get launched, I'm told that they'll look really, really good.

Sam Sethi: 1:29:59

Now,

James C: 1:29:59

Rogue ducks

Sam Sethi: 1:30:00

now, can

James C: 1:30:00

from

Sam Sethi: 1:30:00

I point out

James C: 1:30:01

Jean Bean. Yes.

Sam Sethi: 1:30:02

you are an advisor. Have you got that beta

James C: 1:30:06

Have I got the beta? I probably do have the

Sam Sethi: 1:30:09

right.

James C: 1:30:09

beta, Yes, I have been. In fact, yesterday's job, one of yesterday's jobs

Sam Sethi: 1:30:14

So

James C: 1:30:15

writing Fountain's article about transcripts and shamelessly adding, you know, links to various places and making sure that it was really

Sam Sethi: 1:30:26

that's

James C: 1:30:27

clear. So I enjoyed doing that. And I'm looking forward to meeting Oscar because I've not met Oscar yet.

Sam Sethi: 1:30:33

right.

James C: 1:30:34

And Nick, looking forward to meeting them the week of the podcast show. I'm

Sam Sethi: 1:30:39

Yeah.

James C: 1:30:39

going out and camping

Sam Sethi: 1:30:40

You got to

James C: 1:30:41

out

Sam Sethi: 1:30:41

know

James C: 1:30:41

in their office for a little bit. You may hear a Pod News Daily, which has been recorded in their office as well, so that should be good fun. But yes, looking forward

Sam Sethi: 1:30:50

it.

James C: 1:30:51

to that.

Sam Sethi: 1:30:51

And in case anyone keeps asking, we keep promising Oscar on this show. We do keep promising

James C: 1:30:57

Oh yeah.

Sam Sethi: 1:30:57

Oscar

James C: 1:30:57

What

Sam Sethi: 1:30:57

on this

James C: 1:30:57

happened

Sam Sethi: 1:30:58

show.

James C: 1:30:58

to that?

Sam Sethi: 1:30:58

Well, Oscar keeps going. I'm not quite ready yet, so. Yes. So as an advisor, can you kick him up the backside to tell

James C: 1:31:06

Wow.

Sam Sethi: 1:31:06

him to hurry up and get ready, please?

James C: 1:31:07

Well, let's

Sam Sethi: 1:31:07

Because.

James C: 1:31:07

find out. Let's find out when I see him in a couple of weeks. Let's find out whether

Sam Sethi: 1:31:10

Yes.

James C: 1:31:10

we can do it. Then if you get value from what we do. The Pod News weekly review is separate from pod news. Sam and I share everything from this show, so we really appreciate your support so we can continue making it. You can become a palace supporter. Weekly Diet Pod News Dot net. Have you got a credit card burning a hole in your pocket right now? If you fancy supporting Tim Apple, then you can subscribe in Apple podcasts at Apple Eco slash pod news. One of these days I'm going to actually understand the Apple Podcasts Connect system so I can actually understand whether or not we've got any subscribers because I don't know. Or you can support us with stats, which is what we prefer by hitting the boost button in your podcast app. If you don't have a Boost button in your podcast app, then I mean really, where are you? But pod news dot net slash new podcast apps will help you find a new one. And of course I would recommend Fountain. Now it's happening for you this week. Sam

Sam Sethi: 1:32:03

well, as I said, I met up with Doris over a pod pitch at City University this week. Really good to see all the students on their journalism

James C: 1:32:11

Hmm.

Sam Sethi: 1:32:11

course pitching new podcast ideas. It was Matt Hill there and Alena Guthrie from history hit. So yeah, it was a good evening, some three or four that were really good standouts. A couple of were, you know, and one or two hit the cutting room floor. But other than that, it was very good. And of course I mentioned that I was on with Dave and Adam last week talking about pot fans and

James C: 1:32:33

Mm

Sam Sethi: 1:32:33

various

James C: 1:32:33

hmm.

Sam Sethi: 1:32:33

other things to do with podcasting 2.0. So that was a fun evening. And

James C: 1:32:38

Well,

Sam Sethi: 1:32:38

lastly, I can't

James C: 1:32:40

what

Sam Sethi: 1:32:40

tell you any more

James C: 1:32:40

about.

Sam Sethi: 1:32:40

about it, but I was really pleased to catch up with Elie Rubenstein, who's the CEO of Pocket Casts and lead on that. They are doing stuff with the podcasting index 2.0, and hopefully Ali will be with us in well, not sure the timeframe, but she will be on this show shortly to talk about what podcasts are doing in that market space.

James C: 1:33:03

Oh, well, I'm looking forward to hearing more about that. That should be fun.

Sam Sethi: 1:33:08

Maybe she'll come on before Oscar. We never know.

James C: 1:33:11

Maybe

Sam Sethi: 1:33:14

Now, James, what's happened for you?

James C: 1:33:17

you're only you're only saying that just so that you can wind Oscar up, aren't you? I think.

Sam Sethi: 1:33:21

I

James C: 1:33:21

I

Sam Sethi: 1:33:21

have,

James C: 1:33:21

think that that's the thing.

Sam Sethi: 1:33:23

and I've

James C: 1:33:24

Yes.

Sam Sethi: 1:33:24

met him, so I've got at least one advantage over you. I have actually met Oscar twice.

James C: 1:33:29

Now, I had a really good chat with Patrick Hill from Dystopia for the Podcast Business Journal. You'll find that in next week's edition of the podcast business Journal Podcast Business Journal dot com this week Ben Richardson from RSS dot com is on talking about what that company

Sam Sethi: 1:33:47

You

James C: 1:33:48

is doing in Mexico because you might

Sam Sethi: 1:33:49

might

James C: 1:33:49

think

Sam Sethi: 1:33:50

think

James C: 1:33:50

it's just

Sam Sethi: 1:33:50

it's just

James C: 1:33:50

a podcast

Sam Sethi: 1:33:50

like,

James C: 1:33:51

hosting company but oh no, they're doing other things in Mexico. So I thought I'd find out a little bit more about what's going on there. I also managed to completely slip in and miss a very important meeting that I was due to have, so that was good.

Sam Sethi: 1:34:06

Oh,

James C: 1:34:07

Note to self Always check before you go to sleep whether or not you're supposed to be waking up early. That's probably a good plan. What I'm very much looking forward to is going to New Zealand over the weekend. As I mentioned before, I've

Sam Sethi: 1:34:22

I'm

James C: 1:34:22

got a

Sam Sethi: 1:34:22

going to

James C: 1:34:23

basically a day and a half there. It's only 4 hours flight away. But looking forward to that

Sam Sethi: 1:34:29

get

James C: 1:34:30

to

Sam Sethi: 1:34:30

to

James C: 1:34:30

the

Sam Sethi: 1:34:30

the.

James C: 1:34:30

New Zealand podcast summit. So

Sam Sethi: 1:34:33

So

James C: 1:34:33

I will

Sam Sethi: 1:34:33

I will

James C: 1:34:33

be back

Sam Sethi: 1:34:34

be back

James C: 1:34:34

next

Sam Sethi: 1:34:34

next

James C: 1:34:34

week

Sam Sethi: 1:34:34

week

James C: 1:34:34

with

Sam Sethi: 1:34:35

with

James C: 1:34:35

all

Sam Sethi: 1:34:35

all

James C: 1:34:35

kinds of news and

Sam Sethi: 1:34:36

the

James C: 1:34:36

information

Sam Sethi: 1:34:36

information

James C: 1:34:37

about how the New Zealand podcast, the New Zealand podcast industry

Sam Sethi: 1:34:43

I,

James C: 1:34:44

is working.

Sam Sethi: 1:34:45

I think

James C: 1:34:45

I also

Sam Sethi: 1:34:45

I'll

James C: 1:34:46

have

Sam Sethi: 1:34:46

set

James C: 1:34:46

to

Sam Sethi: 1:34:46

out to

James C: 1:34:46

do

Sam Sethi: 1:34:46

do

James C: 1:34:47

a presentation

Sam Sethi: 1:34:47

a presentation

James C: 1:34:47

to some

Sam Sethi: 1:34:48

just,

James C: 1:34:48

people in Italy on Monday, which I'm looking forward to, even if I haven't that presentation, nor have I written the presentation yet for New Zealand, nor have I written the presentation for the podcast show London. And all of those are due in about 3 hours. So

Sam Sethi: 1:35:03

Oh, good luck.

James C: 1:35:03

good. So that'll be fun and so I better go. That's it for this week.

Sam Sethi: 1:35:09

Yes. Thank you to our guests. And if you want to give us feedback using email, you can do that at weekly iPod news dot net or send to subscribe. And if

James C: 1:35:19

Hmm.

Sam Sethi: 1:35:19

your podcast app doesn't support Boost, as you said, James, what are you doing? Grab a new app from plug news dot net forward slash new podcast apps,

James C: 1:35:29

Our music

Sam Sethi: 1:35:29

music

James C: 1:35:29

is

Sam Sethi: 1:35:30

and

James C: 1:35:30

from Studio Dragonfly. Our voiceover is Sheila D. We're hosted and sponsored by Buzz Sprout Podcast Hosting Made Easy.