Orson Welles: 0:00

The Pod News Weekly Review uses chapters. Skip between the stories if you have to or you know don't the last word in podcasting news.

Sheila Dee: 0:09

This is the Pod News Weekly Review with James Cridland and Sam Sethi.

John McDermott: 0:15

I'm James Cridland , the editor of Pod News, and I'm John McDermott from Calaroga Shark Media.

Zach Justice: 0:20

It's a great source of secure revenue. My favorite part is the community. I can speak to people one-on-one who are, I guess, the truest fans or the truest viewers.

James Cridland: 0:31

Zach Justice from the Dropouts about why he uses Patreon for his value for value, plus Radio Canada's Ooh La La Lawyers and AI Voices. This podcast is sponsored by Buzzsprout with the tools, support and community to ensure you keep podcasting, Start podcasting. Keep podcasting with buzzsproutcom From your daily newsletter, the Pod News Weekly Review. Sam Sethi is drinking wine and riding a bicycle in Alsace, in France. So we've got one of our power supporters for Sam today, John McDermott from Calaroga Shark Media. John, who are you and who is Calaroga Shark Media?

John McDermott: 1:08

We make short form podcasts. I use the word lovingly McDonald's. They're tasty, they're quick, they aren't a lot to produce and it makes a nice business for us. I also host two podcasts Daily Comedy News and Five Good News Stories. I'm the writer on a lot of shows but we do a lot of dailies. They're all 10, 12, 15 minutes. Put them out, run some mid-rolls and that's the business.

James Cridland: 1:31

And those daily shows. There's the Daily Comedy News which you host, I think.

John McDermott: 1:35

Yes, and my business partner, mark Francis, hosts Palace Intrigue which is about the British royal family. That's the big one. That's what the company is built off of. Thank you, megan, and I write that one. It's a lot of fun to do and you say McDonald's.

James Cridland: 1:48

Mcdonald's, of course, very famous for being consistent. Whichever McDonald's you go into in the world, the Big Mac will taste the same, unless you go to India, where they don't eat cows, but accepting that McDonald's will taste exactly the same. So consistency is part of your secret sauce, is it? I'll take that as high praise.

John McDermott: 2:08

Yeah, it's just. You know, other people are making big produced documentaries and that's great and I understand that some of the things we make are never going to win. You know, podcast of the year, here's an AI hosted trivia show. I get it, totally get it, but for us and what we're doing, it works just great and it's a lot of fun to do, just to create every day. And with a two-man company, there are days we roll out of bed and one of us will text the other and be like, hey, how about this thing? Should we jump on that? The recent example of that was Mark texted me and was like I want to do a show about Diddy and the approval process was cool.

James Cridland: 2:41

Yeah, that's kind of how it should be, Instead of three months worth of meetings and tediousness. Spot the man who's worked for a large broadcaster. You've worked for a large broadcaster there in the past, haven't you?

John McDermott: 2:54

Several and it's part of so. I'm glad people get to hear my voice Anytime I say on a podcast, I admit, on social media, on LinkedIn and my sub stack, I throw fastballs, so I like coming on shows like this so I can sound a little more reasoned. But not working for the corporation anymore has allowed me to be a little more unleashed with my opinions because, you know, no one's going to send me a note and be like did you say that? You know? So it's fun. I'm 55 years old. Now I understand that the most of my home runs are on the back of my baseball card and not the future, and it's just a great place to be. You reach a point where you're like ah, you know what I like, who I am and I'm having a good time.

James Cridland: 3:35

I'm 54. I hadn't considered that, so thanks for making me feel old, john.

John McDermott: 3:40

I'm sorry.

James Cridland: 3:41

Let's kick off with stories about AI. Actually, there's a Scottish voiceover called Gayenne Potter, who claims that she's had her voice stolen and used as the voice of Scott Rail a train operator. Would you like to hear what she sounds like in the train?

John McDermott: 3:56

Oh, yeah, this story. You know, sometimes you've got to read what you're signing, and I know we're all guilty of that. But this one to me is a little like ooh what did you guys do?

James Cridland: 4:06

Yeah, exactly. Well, this is what she sounds like.

Zach Justice: 4:09

We are now approaching Glasgow Central.

James Cridland: 4:13

Please mind the gap when alighting from this train. I mean, that sounds all right to me.

John McDermott: 4:17

Yes, if it's what you thought was going to happen.

James Cridland: 4:22

Again, I imagine somebody signed something, but that's the kind of thing that you you know, you get on a train and you hear yourself, you'd be like, wait, what happened? Yeah, and that's pretty well exactly what happened. She was sent a video from a friend saying oh wow, I've just heard your voice on the train. Scotrail is the train operator for all of Scotland, so it's not a small thing. And yeah, and apparently she was most upset. Now she says that she signed a deal in 2021 for a company called ReadSpeaker or it might be RedSpeaker, I don't know R-E-A-D Speaker believing that it would only be used for e-learning and accessibility. She's calling for tighter regulations, but Reid's speaker says it has repeatedly addressed her claims and you kind of get the feeling that they've kept on going back to her and said no, you signed this. This is what it means. But I mean, if I was a voiceover, my goodness, I mean, if you have allowed your voice to be cloned in that way, then that's probably the end of your career in terms of being a voiceover, I guess.

John McDermott: 5:27

I guess. But for all of us. You know, many of us in the industry have cloned their voice and I don't think any of the folks that I do business with are doing anything nefarious. But maybe I haven't read page 98 of something.

James Cridland: 5:40

Well, yeah, exactly, I mean, it's not the only AI voice in the news. This week, the Orson Welles estate has approved an AI voice clone of the actor to produce an audio guide which is available within an app called Story Rabbit. Orson Welles died in 1985, but he's still alive in terms of his voice. This is what he sounds like.

Orson Welles: 6:03

The world has a memory. It lingers in statues, breathes through buildings and flickers at the edges of the familiar. This is the voice of Orson Welles, curious as ever, and I'm ready to reveal what has been hidden too long.

John McDermott: 6:23

I mean, I have to say, as soon as you hear Orson Welles' voice, I remember listening to the Alan Parsons Project, which had an album with him on, and that is the same voice. That is astonishingly good. And the fact that the Orson Welles estate, that his family or the people that his family trust to use his voice in this way is quite a thing, I think. What did you think of that voice? You use AI a fair amount.

John McDermott: 6:57

I have a big smile on my face. That's Orson Welles, or what my mind thinks Orson Welles sounds like. That's fantastic. On a similar note, Netflix had a recent documentary about Churchill where they took Churchill's words from his books and had Churchill AI voice Churchill, and I thought it made the whole story better. It was fantastic. So I'm in favor of these things. Again, if the estate is on board and it's not, you know, hey, let's clone James Cridland and have him host the poker show. You know that's not cool, but if everybody's on board with something, that's great. So it's Orson Welles. We understand he died what is it? 40 years ago, but great great to hear him again.

James Cridland: 7:30

I have a smile on my face. Yeah, no, it's really good. So you use AI for a fair amount of things, don't you?

John McDermott: 7:36

Yeah, and you and I have discussed this publicly, privately, and my take on it.

John McDermott: 7:41

For example, we just did a new series. It's called Eastwood Reloaded. It's about Clint Eastwood. I work for a two man company. I sound like this. Mark was born in Adelaide, australia, so he sounds like that. Neither one of us is quite right for an Eastwood podcast. You're not right for it, sam's not right for it. The AI voice we picked is right for it and you know I wrote the words and an AI is voicing it and Mark produced it. I think it sounds pretty good. So we use AI voices regularly.

John McDermott: 8:11

I use AI in show production development. Help me figure out, you know. Again back to Eastwood. I probably would have just handed in Dirty Harry and the good, the bad and the ugly and the AI as I shaped it. I was like you know what ideas are here. It was like, oh, why don't you look at something like American Sniper, which he directed? I'm like, oh, good, thought AI pal On some of our narrative series. I'll throw the scripts back into AI after I'm done with them. I just went through. I just did this on the acting president series and just had the AI. Check OK President series and just had the AI check. Ok, did I leave any dangling plot threads? Did I not establish something? Is something not clear? Is there continuity here? And it's great for helping with that sort of thing.

James Cridland: 8:54

So here's a little clip of some of that Eastwood Reloaded podcast.

James Cridland : 8:59

He was already a known quantity, but this this is where the Eastwood myth becomes something more than myth. Here's what you need to know. Dirty Harry was released in December 1971, directed by Don Siegel, a frequent Eastwood collaborator. The film tells the story of San Francisco police inspector Harry Callahan, a no-nonsense cop on the trail of a serial killer who calls himself Scorpio a no-nonsense cop on the trail of a serial killer who calls himself Scorpio.

James Cridland: 9:28

Now, no shade on you, John, but I don't think that you would have done as good a job as that AI voice.

John McDermott: 9:31

No, 100%, and that's where I come from. So earlier today I produced two weeks of our trivia series, five Daily Trivia Questions. I probably could host that one, but by having the AI do it and you would sound great on that as well but by having the AI do it, I got everything in one take, except it said Paul McCartney played bass guitar. So I had to do one pickup and I was able to make two weeks of shows in one hour. So if I bill myself for my time and then I assembled it and we get two weeks of shows, throw in some mid-rolls for an hour of whatever you want me to charge me. You know that's a nice business.

James Cridland: 10:11

And I think you did something which was very, you know, throws back to your radio world, of reacting very, very fast. Pope Francis wasn't very well. Everybody expected him to die relatively quickly and all of a sudden there was a show which I think was called White Smoke. Wasn't very well. Everybody expected him to die relatively quickly and all of a sudden there was a show which I think was called White Smoke, wasn't it?

John McDermott: 10:30

Yeah. So we started that one same conversation. Mark would have sounded okay on that, but one of the things I get on my soapbox about is resources include time, humans, money. So if Mark is voicing White Smoke, mark is not making something else and there's only two people at the company. So we went with the AI.

John McDermott: 10:47

That I think, sounds pretty good and can I tell you, you know, now that we're into the Pope Leo era, that show has evolved. We're continuing to do it daily for now because Pope Leo, the American Pope, there's all these stories that maybe if a different person had been selected as Pope we wouldn't be getting about. You know the white socks and the stamp collecting, and he's got a brother who goes on Fox News and it's almost become like papal intrigue where we're just covering right now the gossip of Pope Leo. But when, when the novelty dies down, that will go back. We have mapped out, we've got to unproduced scripts that we didn't use because of the death of Pope Francis, but that will go back to being a story of how does one select a new Pope. There's fascinating stories for each one of them, so that'll eventually go back to maybe a weekly, or maybe we'll do say Leo on Wednesday and the narrative series on Sunday, but right now it's kind of a gossip show and it's fun.

James Cridland: 11:49

I find it fascinating and I think the one thing as we were chatting offline, I think the one thing that I realised and I've used this on stage now and people seem to get it is in the 1980s nobody said this song contains a drum machine. Nobody would have said that. But that clearly was the thing in the 1980s. Now perhaps what people should have said is Milli Vanilli aren't real and they're actually session singers and they're not the people who you see on the music videos and things. And I suppose it's that difference. If you were told that Orson Wells is still actually alive and voicing this stuff, that's a very different conversation, obviously. I mean it's obviously a lie, but it's a very different conversation to deceive somebody than to basically just use the tools in the method that they are supposed to be used. So yeah, I think the whole drum machine analogy, as I'm now calling it, is an interesting one.

John McDermott: 12:47

Yeah, and you and I we've had great discussions about it. One of them was me reacting to well, why didn't you say it was an AI? And I'm like I don't know, I don't know why I didn't say it was an AI. I'm not hiding that it's an AI. I'm actually proud that it's an AI. So now I say, hey, this is an AI. Voice or AI was used in the production of this series.

James Cridland: 13:05

I believe you say proudly using AI these days.

John McDermott: 13:09

Yeah, so you and I have had very respectful educational discussions about it and I've appreciated them and I've said that privately and publicly.

Sheila Dee: 13:15

The Pod News Weekly Review with Buzzsprout. Start podcasting, keep podcasting.

John McDermott: 13:23

So Wednesday you covered a radio broadcaster who's sending legal threats to podcast apps for using their RSS feeds. What's going on there?

James Cridland: 13:31

Yeah, this is a really weird one. So, yes, so the wonderful people at Radio Canada, which is one of the public service broadcasters in Canada, to the north of where you are Whereabouts are you, by the way, at the moment? New Jersey, new Jersey? Oh, there you go.

James Cridland: 13:49

Well, so Radio Canada, all the way up there in Montreal, has been sending out rather confused legal threats, or rather a lawyer acting on their behalf basically saying how dare you use our podcast feeds that we have published for the use of linking to a podcast? And just very strange, I think one of the things that I spotted in the story you'll find it in the Pod News newsletter One of the things that I spotted was that the lawyer was basically saying you must take all CBC and Radio Canada podcasts down, and the CBC, who I contacted, basically said we know nothing about this and please don't do that. So you know, radio Canada has a very different strategy, but their strategy appears to be have a confused lawyer that doesn't really understand how podcasting works and get them to send legal threats to podcast apps for using open RSS feeds that are available in Apple Podcasts, and they haven't ticked the box that says don't give this RSS feed to anybody else. So, you know, from my point of view and I've been at the receiving end of a number of these legal threats from my point of view, you know, getting legal threats is pretty bad If you believe in lawyers and you believe in the rule of law, which I increasingly don't.

James Cridland: 15:15

But if you do that, then to get this sort of scary thing that says, you know, time, sensitive legal demand at the top of it is, you know, it just adds stress to your life and stress that you don't need, particularly if you're doing everything totally right and above board. So, yeah, so it was quite interesting being able to focus on that, being able to, you know, essentially make a thing of this particular lawyer. It's not the first, it won't be the last, but hopefully lawyers will look at this and go, oh yeah, okay, actually we need to get our ducks in a row, we need to understand what it is that we are asking for here and we need to understand how podcasting works first of all. So, yeah, I mean I don't know whether you've you know, are you comfortable with anybody using your RSS feed, as long as it's being used in the right way?

John McDermott: 16:09

Yeah, in the right way. So you know I'll push back with anyone. And just to keep Clint Eastwood in mind, there's a scene in High Plains, Drifter, where the townspeople are scared of the bad guys and they offer Clint anything he wants and he takes anything he wants, you know. So anyone using my RSS feed? Spiritually, yes, but you know, I'd like to know what they're using it for. One thing I teach in my college class it'll come up. You know how much of a show can I use? And aside from the legal of that, just the spiritual of that, I'll explain. If I put on Jimmy Fallon's Tonight Show tonight and he goes, hey, I discovered this new podcast. It's called Daily Comedy News. It's really great. Let's listen. I'll be ecstatic tomorrow If he does it for a week. I'll be ecstatic the 500th time they do that. At some point I'm going to call NBC and be like you know, hey, can I get something here?

John McDermott: 16:56

So yes, I'm cool with you using my RSS feed, but it's all situational.

James Cridland: 17:02

That's a great point and it's exactly. It's what you know if you're using it for what RSS is to be used for, which is to populate a podcast app or to be in a directory. I mean, heaven knows how many of these legal things Adam and Dave get at the podcast index, for example things Adam and Dave get at the podcast index, for example but using RSS the way that it's supposed to be used, that should never require a large, complicated legal document. At the end of the day, you can hide your RSS feed, you can make sure that it isn't scrapable, and that would be the way of doing it. So, yeah, if there's anything that I wish I could stamp out, it's dumb lawyers who don't quite understand how the world works.

John McDermott: 17:51

No, and it's interesting. I've described a big part of my career being showbiz adjacent, especially the 10 years at Sirius, and usually things don't go straight, lawyer. Usually they start with a phone call of like hey, james, it's McDermott, what's the deal with this? How do we work this out? It usually starts friendly.

James Cridland: 18:10

Yeah, I would agree and I think particularly a taxpayer funded company or taxpayer funded organization getting a presumably expensive lawyer to start sending all of this stuff out. Now, it might be the lawyer thinks that he's got carte blanche from the client to send all of these things out and to bill hourly for them. I mean it might be a nice little earner, but from my point of view it's just not a good thing for the podcast industry. So if there's anything that I can do, stopping that sort of thing would be quite helpful, and I should thank Podcast Addict, the app, for forwarding me the legal demands initially and allowing me to mention them, because it makes it much more helpful if you can actually point at. You know, this is the podcast app that was threatened, because they are doing the right thing in most cases. So, yeah, I think it's a good thing. Now let's move on to Spotify news. We would play the jingle, but I can't be bothered.

James Cridland: 19:18

Spotify launched an enhanced podcast discovery tool for its app. There are now recommendations on the home screen quotes for users who love podcasts end quotes. I'm not quite sure how those recommendations are chosen. There's also threaded views in their comments and a following view within the app. Have you seen the recommendations on the home screen and, if you have, john, what have you actually seen being recommended to you? What new unearthed podcast might there be there?

John McDermott: 19:51

I have. And before I say another word, I just want to be fair to Spotify and say I have not tried to train this thing at all. I do not usually use Spotify as a podcast app, so I want to be fair there. But the first thing that was recommended to me was Amy Poehler's podcast, the current number one podcast, I think on both charts. So I'm not sure that was helpful to unsurface Amy Poehler's podcast. I don't think that's the intention. But that was the first time I had opened the app in a minute. So, okay, free pass on that one. Day two, I was served something I hadn't heard of, wasn't interested in, and again, I hadn't trained the algo. But I was like, okay, this is new. The next two days I got a show about fried chicken and I kind of appreciate that. I was like, oh, this is fun. But then it said the word watch and I was like, oh, no, no, no, you don't know me at all, We'll get to that.

John McDermott: 20:41

So this morning it was only offering me music on my home tab. So I switched over to the podcast tab and I'll tell you, james, there they had playing under the cover art like a live. I could read the podcast as I was deciding whether or not I wanted to listen to it or, I guess, even watch it, but I thought the transcription thing was really interesting. I'm excited about what they're up to. It's not all the way there yet, for me anyway, but I think it's great whatever they're up to.

James Cridland: 21:20

Yeah, I mean, I think anything that helps people find shows is a useful thing. I've just thought to myself oh, I should probably check it myself, shouldn't I? And on my home screen at the moment is the Louis Theroux podcast. Now, louis Theroux being a British broadcaster who looks very much like me, and yeah, that would be a good. I mean, it does say you know, watch now and all of that kind of stuff. But yes, that makes sense.

James Cridland: 21:51

One person did contact me and said because it auto plays, it auto plays a little bit of the show. Does that count as a play, particularly if it's on pass-through? I think my understanding is it doesn't and it won't actually appear on pass wish. To be honest, I wish that it was a little bit more democratic and it used the pod role and things like that, because that's helpful. But yeah, you know, what have I got on my podcast's homepage? I've got songs that explain the 90s, focusing on no One Knows, by Queens of the Stone Age. That's a very Spotify thing, isn't it? Followed by a Danny Baker podcast, who again is another British podcaster, followed by the Guardian Full Story that's again British. So Adam Buxton British, the News Quiz, british. So they've clearly understood where I'm from, although weirdly, I'm in Australia and I have an Australian bank account connected to that, so who knows what's going on there. But yeah, that was certainly interesting. So, yeah, I think there's definitely something there in terms of that.

John McDermott: 23:15

I just opened mine back up, so on the main tab I'm not seeing any podcasts. I am being recommended Joe Rogan with Ron Weitz I won't eye roll that, because that's absolutely something I would listen to anyway Bill Simmons, which I did listen to earlier today, and Dan Cummins is another comedian. Yeah, you're a big, big Bill Simmons fan, aren't you? You know, I think Bill got this right 10 years ago and I have said this to people who I've worked with for years of because I approach everything from a budget standpoint and the sentiment of let's go in the other room and just talk about basketball to me makes so much sense, and Bill's built an empire on that as opposed to doing these you know, big, giant productions the last 10 weeks, and then how are we going to make the money back? So I love what Bill does, and I think what you're getting at is my confusion over Bill Simmons. Head of stock programming or whatever his title was pushing everyone to YouTube instead of Spotify video. That just confused me.

James Cridland: 24:08

Yes, yes, there's a lot of confusion with Bill Simmons. I liked the way that he quite recently, in a show of his, basically said that everybody who works in his industry are all shysters and untrustworthy people and blah, blah, blah. And you're there thinking should you really be saying that out loud? But maybe that's part of the charm, who knows? So Calaruga Shark Media does it do anything with Patreon or similar subscription tools like that?

John McDermott: 24:38

No Patreon. We do use Supporting Cast, which I like a lot. We also offer the shows mostly commercial free. We've started to do more early releases. As things are produced, I said to Mark I go, why don't we just put them all out and let people listen early? I like Apple subscriptions a lot. There's less friction. I understand Apple takes their coin out of the wallet, but the trade-off there for the less friction and being able to tell the listeners click the banner that says uninterrupted listening, that's just. It's so much straightforward and I see a lot better conversion on Apple subscriptions. I also for the comedy show. I do buy me a coffee, which works pretty well. I like buy me a coffee, yeah no, it's a good thing.

James Cridland: 25:17

Buymeacoffeecom slash James Cridland. You can always always go over there. No, it's a good thing and I find it fascinating. So I link to Buy Me A Coffee and to my own tip jar on Stripe and it's just a Stripe payment page and you can put in anything you like on that particular page. No one ever uses the unbranded Stripe thing. Everybody uses the Buy Me A Coffee or the Patreon, which I find fascinating. It's that power of the brand. I did write in the Pod News website. I did write my own Patreon because I thought why am I giving Patreon some of my money? Wrote my own version, which nobody used and everybody continued to use Patreon and I thought, well, that does show some of that. I think Funny that we mentioned Patreon, though, because I was at the podcast show a couple of weeks ago and I caught up with Stephanie at Patreon, but first one of their podcasts that uses Patreon a lot, the Dropouts. I caught up with Zach Justice and I started by asking Zach who he was. I do a multitude of things.

Zach Justice: 26:24

I have two dogs that I walk and outside of that I guess I do podcasting. It's not a great podcast, but I have one. Everyone does these days. And what is your podcast? I have Dropouts podcast, because I dropped out, so I'm uneducated, so anything you hear today that you take with you is on your own concern, because I've already told you I'm uneducated. And then I have another one called the Lunch Table. So two podcasts in a week and for some reason that's apparently a job nowadays.

James Cridland: 26:52

We know of your podcast. They're big, big, big shows. You are here because the excellent people at Patreon have brought us together. I'm assuming that is because you do stuff on Patreon. That is true. Why did you get involved in Patreon as a different revenue stream?

Zach Justice: 27:10

So my mom decided she wanted to go on more vacations. So I was like, oh, I guess I need to earn more money. And then a paywall is a great way to do that and Patreon is the best one in my opinion. So we give them extra content. We give them the 15 to 20 minutes of extra podcasts of each podcast. Extra podcasts a month that we do a drunk episode. So again, I dropped out of college and I get paid. It's a wild west out here. But no, patreon's been great. We just filmed. We rented out Mel's Diner in Hollywood, which is like a very famous diner, uh, and we brought, uh, a ton of our fans in and they were able to watch us do competitions and film a podcast. So Patreon has been a good little partner. I feel like I'm married without the commitment. It's beautiful.

James Cridland: 27:53

There are quite a few podcasters who say that adding additional content that's quite a lot of hard work. Is it an important part of the? The patron experience? Is that why people are signing up?

Zach Justice: 28:05

Yeah, I think. I think they also want to feel that we give out so much free content. Obviously, and again, um, we've noticed a lot of people are like sometimes I don't watch it, I just feel so nice that I get to help you guys out because you give me so much already. But but no, uh, definitely a majority is there because we give um the extra content, um, and it's like, uh, it's like a little club almost. You know, we've got our community which understands the quirks and our ins and outs of inside jokes and, uh, we go to them for, for new concepts and things. So it really feels like a, an extended family, of a place where we can feel safe from the scariness of the full internet.

James Cridland: 28:41

a place where we can feel safe from the scariness of the full internet. Yeah, and of course you know, advertising sometimes means that you can't necessarily say some of the things that you want to end up saying how important is Patreon to you as a business when you're making your shows, are you able to give us any sort of numbers?

Zach Justice: 28:58

Yes, I'm very rich from Patreon. Thank you. I'm not allowed to give official numbers because Robbie's sitting right next to me and he'll get mad at me. But just know, I'm doing so well and I want to specify that I'm not giving any of it to charity. But I would if I found a charity that I liked, but so far I haven't.

James Cridland: 29:17

But are we talking about? You know?

Zach Justice: 29:18

an extra five 10% or are we talking about a significant additional Extra 50%? Yeah, if you do it right.

James Cridland: 29:28

And so in your mind, what is doing it right, I guess?

Zach Justice: 29:31

it's the way that some people just create, I guess, a Patreon maybe, or really any model of paywall, to just get money when it should be community building. So if you're giving them more value than they're signing up for, I think that's just a beautiful thing and people really enjoy it. So we like to over deliver. Our first tier is five bucks a month, so we really wanna make sure they get more than they deserve not than they deserve, but than we deserve. I'm they deserve, but then we deserve. I'm just kidding from them.

James Cridland: 30:03

So yeah, you talk about community. There are other methods out there where you can earn money from your audience, but you don't necessarily, you can't actually communicate with them one-on-one. Is the community aspect of it an important part?

Zach Justice: 30:19

Yeah, I think that's the main reason we do it. I mean, obviously it's, it's a great source of secure revenue, which you know, say, the advertisers go away or for whatever reason the algorithm changes, they're all there, um, but I, my favorite part is the community, because I can speak to people one-on-one who are, I guess, the truest fans or the truest viewers, the people that really understand the content the most, so they can usually give the best ideas when it comes to what they want to see. A lot of people they just need a friend, and today a lot of people are lonely, so it's nice to get that one-on-one time with a lot of individuals.

Stephanie from Patreon: 30:56

Stephanie, what do you do at Patreon? First of all, I'm head of business development, and that can mean a number of things, but at Patreon I am responsible for product partnerships. So looking at platforms that we feel can enhance the tools and services that creators are offering their fans, and then also channel partnerships. So that's looking at where do creators live at scale, where members live at scale, and how do I partner with those platforms to funnel them to Patreon.

James Cridland: 31:18

And is the story of Zach and Robbie. You know, you know, uh, one of those stories that you hear every, every day at Patreon.

Stephanie from Patreon: 31:26

The great thing about Patreon is everybody comes from different walks of life, different stories on how they got there. I just actually finished a panel with um, the Red Handed Podcast, and they met at a bar. And if, if a few seconds differed, they would have never met. And so, um, it's really about people who are creators, who are coming to express themselves freely, to build relationships of their community and to build businesses around them.

James Cridland: 31:52

There's a number of different services which do the kind of Patreon thing. They don't all have Jack Conte as the boss. What's different about Patreon to those other services?

Stephanie from Patreon: 32:03

Yeah, I would focus just on our strengths. I think that A Jack Conte is a phenomenal CEO and he's a creator himself, and so, being part of a mission-driven company, that creator well-being and sustainability is so woven into our DNA that that speaks volumes. And sustainability is so woven into our DNA that that speaks volumes. But then also, looking at how much we advocate for creators versus other businesses might be beholden to advertisers, to brands, or even signing up creators, where they pay up front but not vested into their success.

Stephanie from Patreon: 32:39

Our platform is if the creator makes money, we make money. If they don't make money, we don't make money, and so that aligns incentives and objectives so that we are fully vested into their success. And so we are incentivized to do IRL events, like we did with Dropouts, because we want them to be successful. It all becomes a flywheel, and so I just think the passion about creators, it differentiates ourselves. And then we have put significant investment into our podcasting vertical. We have over 40,000 podcasters, 6.7 million paid members for those podcasts and they made over $472 million last year. And so I think that indicates to the market and to our creators and to fans that we take podcasting really seriously and and we've been building tools to help you build sustainable businesses on our platform.

Zach Justice: 33:34

I. Finally, he threatens me that if I don't make him more money, he'll come to my house. He didn't see what he'd do there, but he has threatened me He'll come house and sing.

James Cridland: 33:43

That's the. That's the scary thing.

Zach Justice: 33:44

Yeah, he's gonna bring the whole band, or he's gonna bring the whole ponta moose or whatever they're called and just jam out my last question to you, uh, stephanie, is what, what, um, what have you learned?

James Cridland: 33:53

works really well. What are, what are the what? What is the dropout doing that? Uh, other podcasters should also be doing.

Stephanie from Patreon: 34:01

Yeah, I think. First, podcasters understanding that it doesn't take like a whole full production house to build a new business on Patreon. You can literally keep the cameras on longer and deliver extended content, bonus content. I think, making things exclusive on Patreon but minimizing the amount of extra effort you have to put in, that's the highest ROI, because your fans are going to want to want more coming from those channels. I think also the community tools that we have available via community chats, being able to do DMs, comments, and we're also launching live later this summer so you can do live Q&A with your fans or do a live DJing session or teach them how to play an instrument. So many things that allow you to have extra touch points with your community. And then, when it's time to galvanize them for IRL events, like at Mel's Diner, they're ripe to go because they're energized, they're excited and it's something that they can't get outside of Patreon.

James Cridland: 35:05

Very cool. Stephanie Zach, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. I know you are.

Zach Justice: 35:10

I'm giving him a handshake for our audio listeners.

James Cridland: 35:13

Yes, thank you On the record, On the record. So there we are, and if you would like to obviously go and support the PodNews Patreon, then do that. Podnewsnet slash Patreon, I'll get two accounts. Radio and podcasting seem to be merging. John iHeart have just announced the launch of a new nightly radio show and podcast which is called True Crime Tonight. The show is going live this week on 20 broadcast radio stations throughout the US. Is this where you think radio should be going?

John McDermott: 35:50

I think that's a lot of fun, especially, you know, we both come out of radio the nighttime, especially the overnight format, always allowed for talk, a chance to try things out. I think this is neat, rather than throwing on another show discussing the issues of the day or the politician of the day. It's different and it may get podcasting content in front of casuals. I think that's great.

James Cridland: 36:17

Yeah, I thought it was interesting. It's obvious what iHeart are doing, given that the artwork for True Crime Tonight is pink, so it's pretty obvious what's going on there. They are trying to get more younger women listening to their radio stations. Now if it's gone live on 20 broadcast radio stations, that sounds a lot to a European. That is not a lot. Iheart own over a thousand, so this is most definitely a very limited test, but I think it's certainly an interesting test. To put true crime content out on the radio. I don't think that that's really a thing.

John McDermott: 36:55

It certainly isn't here in Australia or in Europe Is the much true crime radio where you are Not that I'm aware of, and I rarely hit that radio button these days. I'm wondering here an educated guess could part of this be added value? Hey, buy some of our iHeart true crime podcasts and we'll also air your spots in otherwise unsold inventory.

James Cridland: 37:20

I am absolutely sure it is.

James Cridland: 37:23

Yeah, I'm absolutely sure it is.

James Cridland: 37:25

I see, I mean, many iHeart stations now have a huge, great, big chunk of podcasts on Sunday evening, which is typically a time when nobody listens to the radio that would normally listen during the week, and so it's a very specific time to have a listen to the radio.

James Cridland: 37:41

And you can very much see that if you sponsor this particular show, not only do you get the podcast, but you also get a big chunk of audience on our broadcast radio stations, and that way they can charge the client more, and I think that it's probably less about added value and more about a justification for the charge that they would give that particular client. But yeah, I find it fascinating, and more radio stations broadcasting podcasts is something that I would expect to see over the coming months and years. The Edison Research Infinite Dial seems to be now relatively close in terms of the amount of spoken word content that is being listened to on the radio and the amount of spoken word content that is being listened happen in the next year, year and a half, but I suspect that podcasting will overtake radio in terms of the primary place that we listen to spoken word content, and why not use the same content? You know more than once.

John McDermott: 38:51

How are the radio stations getting back on the clock? At some point you have to re-sync with the top of the hour, even if it's a hard fade. Mid-sentence, in the middle of a true crime story at 3am, is there a live jock making things time out? Are we just playing a 90-second music bed? Who cares? I'd just be curious.

James Cridland: 39:07

I have heard iHeart's podcast.

James Cridland: 39:09

Radio stations in the past literally fade a podcast out to hit the news at the top of the hour which is awful, and I mean in this day and age I have no idea why they're hitting news at the top of the hour. It's very easy just to buffer that in your play out system and play it when it's next ready. You know when that podcast has finished and if that podcast finishes 30 seconds. I mean I used to sometimes. I did a breakfast show for a radio station in the north of England. I did a breakfast show for a radio station in the north of England and I used to turn up at half past five or so and I would be on the air at six and it would be automated until six when I would turn up.

James Cridland: 39:51

Sometimes I didn't get into the studio in time to actually hit the commercial break, to go into the news, so I would go next door to the other studio that nobody was in, record the news and then play another song play another song, and then I could finish that song, as the song was supposed to finish, and play the ad break, and then or the stop set or whatever it is that you Americans want to call it, and then go into the news and no one knew, because it just sounded better.

James Cridland: 40:20

I didn't have to pot something early. So, uh, yeah, I think a lot of it is down to how it gets played out. A lot of it is down to you know, do you actually play that uh show that shows nominally I don't know 25 minutes? Do you play that at half past so that you finish in time to play a song which you can then fade out? And it sounds less bad than fading out, and the killer was you know. So, yeah, so I don't know, but I find all of it fascinating. I think if there's one thing about radio that drives me a little bit mad, radio is now full of people that don't care very much about radio, and I wish it was not the case, but that's kind of how it is.

John McDermott: 41:05

Your just real quick story. Your news stories reminded me of a trick I learned from my mentor and former WRPD, david Bernstein, who taught me a lot of this. He taught me when you get up in the middle of the night for reasons men, get up in the middle of the night at least once put the radio on for five seconds and then call the hotline and ask any questions. Like James, did you and Sam just talk about Spotify? Yeah, yeah, okay, no, I wasn't sure. I was like half asleep. Yeah, the show sounds great. And then go right back to bed and it makes your air staff think you're a hawk and always listening.

James Cridland: 41:34

Yes, very clever, very wise. One thing I would like to just mention is I hope that Adam Curry has now emptied his dishwasher. Apparently, this show is the show that he listens to when he empties the dishwasher, apparently on a Friday morning. So he was saying so there you go. So I hope that you've emptied it now. Podcast events on the Pod News Weekly Review it now.

James Cridland: 42:05

Podcast events on the Pod News Weekly Review yes, lots of things coming up for you. If you want to go to some events and some exciting things going on, For example, come to Calgary, beautiful Calgary in Alberta, in Canada, you can go to Pond Summit YYC which is happening this September. There's an excellent lineup of speakers, only slightly spoiled by the fact that I'll be there as well. Live podcast shows from Sick Boy and from CBC's Crime Story with Kathleen Goldtar, available wherever you get your podcasts. So that should be fun. Podsummit YYC is linked from the PodNews events page podnewsnet slash events.

James Cridland: 42:39

Also in the UK, the BBC is launching a partnership with the Crossed Wires Podcast Festival in Sheffield. They are running a whole weekend of free shows in early July. If you want tickets and you're in the UK, or even if you're not in the UK hey who cares Then you can go and watch those particular things. You can buy those tickets today. They've probably already sold out, but that's basically how that works. Other events going on podcast movement, of course, in August in Dallas, Texas, If you use the code PODNEWS, you save $75.

John McDermott: 43:36

And Radio Days Asia in Jakarta in Indonesia, which I'm going to looking forward to. The CodePod news there will also save you some money't have any plans right now. I guess part of it is just technology that I can connect with the people I need to see, and I feel like I just saw a bunch of people. I had a great time in Chicago. It was great to see you and other people in the industry, though.

James Cridland: 43:53

Yeah, no, chicago was great fun and there is definitely something about wandering past the bar and seeing somebody who you haven't had a reason to talk to for years. Yes, you can do Zoom calls and all of that, but actually just the randomness of it is a very helpful thing and being able just to sit and have a meal with somebody. I think it's the first time I met Ivo Terra. We were at Podfest, I think, and Ivo needed somebody to go and have lunch with, and so, you know, it was just great to meet him and great to chat with him. So I think that these events still have a place.

James Cridland: 44:36

I'm looking forward to podcast movement in Dallas, in Texas. I mean, obviously, dallas in August is always going to be interesting, let's hope. The last time that we were there, there was an invasion of crickets these massive, great big bugs that were everywhere, and it was very unpleasant, so let's hope that they won't be there for this time. But yeah, I'm looking forward to taking part. Sadly, it's not in the town centre or what should I be calling it Downtown? It's not in downtown, it's in some random resort hotel somewhere. I would much rather that we were in downtown, to be honest, but still, it should be fun, so hopefully see many other people there. The Tech Stuff on the Pod News Weekly Review.

James Cridland: 45:25

Yes, it's the stuff you'll find every Monday in the Pod News newsletter. Here's normally where Sam talks technology, but I'm going to talk about the Podcast Standards Project, john. I'm going to talk about the Podcast Standards Project John, which has published its thinking behind video podcasting. Video podcasting it's the future, and they are talking about HLS delivery of video.

James Cridland: 45:47

So, basically, hls is a way of allowing somebody to download a video, but instead of downloading one great big file, you're downloading lots and lots and lots of tiny 10 second files, and the benefit of doing that is that it allows you to do things like work out how fast the viewer's internet connection is, so you can feed them either a decent quality video stream if they've got a great internet connection, or feed them one which is lower quality but will work better. So that's a good start. It also, of course, means that we can potentially get some more consumption analytics out of that, and you don't have to download the entire video if you only watch the first five minutes of it. So that's all good. Hls streams can still be downloadable, which is important, just to point out. Do you think? I mean, you've clearly got views about video anyway, john, just before we dive into the views about video. Do you think that if video is a thing, we should leave video to YouTube and Spotify, or should we have a solution that works with OpenRSS?

John McDermott: 46:58

I'm always in favor of OpenRSS. I think this is the point where, on a podcast about podcasting, I'm supposed to say something like video's always been part of podcasting since 2007,. James, remember the tiki bar? I think it's great, and especially if you can get things to people without using up all their bandwidth. I actually hit a show that I'm a fan of. I hit them on the side and I was like hey guys, you put out an 800 megabyte one hour audio file. I don't know what's going on there, but you're going to eat up my phone. Can we shrink that down a little bit? But yeah, I'm pro.

James Cridland: 47:34

Yeah, yeah. So a pro in terms of at least making sure that we have an option that isn't just giving our crown jewels away to YouTube or to Spotify Video as a whole. You were really surprised when we connected on Clean Feed that we use to record this particular show. You said, oh, there really is no video because I had made a joke about it. And you said, oh no, there really is no video, is there? What are your views about video and podcasts?

John McDermott: 48:06

So I think, from a creator standpoint, be everywhere. I subscribe to Jimmy Buffett Theory. The great musician Jimmy Buffett made a lot of money doing live concerts, but he also streamed every concert. So if you didn't want to go see Jimmy, you could stay home and watch him on YouTube, and he had a very successful touring career. So I believe in be everywhere. When I do eye roll video, it's part of like. You know, if people were watching you and I have this conversation that right now I don't know about your end, my end's not that interesting, right? So you know why would we make a video of this? I usually listen to you and Sam. I walk the dog long and either Friday afternoon or on Saturdays, um and a long, long dog walk.

John McDermott: 48:46

Uh, we go for an hour, but I'm one of those crazy people that listen at 2.2 X. Sorry, adam, 2.2. Hi Adam Adam. I listened to you on Fridays as well at 2.2. Hi Adam Adam. I listen to you on Fridays as well at 2.2. Love the show. I know he's going to be so mad, you know.

John McDermott: 49:01

So with all these things, it depends what we're making. If I've got the talk show set and my guest is a prominent politician and we've got a four camera shoot and I have a nice suit on and the makeup is there and the lighting is good, sure, let's make a video. Two guys talking about podcasting Maybe not Doesn't need to be a video. But I think my big thing and my caution to the industry is I worry about companies reading things and going, oh, we got to get into video.

John McDermott: 49:31

How can we? Don't have video? And we hire a video team and then maybe the return isn't there, and then we lay the video team off and video and we hire a video team and then maybe the return isn't there, and then we lay the video team off and then where are we? And I'm really worried about that happening the rush to video and then the oh, that didn't work, tap the brakes, what's the new shiny object you know and we've talked about. I can't remember what was the thing. What was the live thing on Twitter X that we were all doing for five minutes and there was fire or something right.

James Cridland: 49:53

Well, it was Vine, I think, which was something. And then, yeah, exactly, I mean, I've seen a ton of people who've been hired and then fired because Facebook changed its mind in terms of how video works as well. I know that Adam Curry is very keen in his view that video is a fad and it'll go away again, I think. From my point of view, I'm a little bit more sort of existential on this. We have a specific place of producing audio first, content stuff your ears when your eyes are busy. That is significantly what podcasting does and that makes us different to every other media out there.

James Cridland: 50:34

Now, if we all of a sudden start making TV, then we are no different to all of the other people who are making crap TV on YouTube. And all of a sudden, the podcast industry just goes away, and it's why I'm keen that we understand what podcasting is, because at some point we need to understand. Okay, the podcast industry is worth this much. The podcast industry is growing. More people are listening to podcasts than ever before. All of that kind of useful narrative for advertisers and for brands goes away if there's no such thing as a podcast industry anymore and the only thing that we are spruiking, to use an Australian phrase is just video. It's just cheap, cheap video. So I think, from my point of view, I like the fact that we have a separate identity and I'm concerned if that separate identity goes away.

John McDermott: 51:36

So, yeah, absolutely make video, knock yourself out, but it's still a podcast right, yeah, and I share the concern about maybe the power being taken away from the creator. If some of the bigger platforms were to change their mind about something, where does that leave you? I actually go the other way. I'm a fan of several YouTubers. These shows where eight people are in Zoom boxes and they talk about is the new Fantastic Four movie any good? I love that stuff. I have an app. I rip those videos to audio and drop them into Pocket Cast and most nights use that to help me drift off to sleep as we argue about the Fantastic Four, you know. So those are videos that I don't even want your video. I don't want to look at the eight of you in the boxes. I just want to hear what you have to say.

James Cridland: 52:20

Yeah, well, it's a weird old thing. Silas on Linux has sent us a thousand sats through Fountain. He says that he's coming around on HLS on the technical side of it because of the multi-resolution thing of it. And he also says of course, you know you can do range headers and things like that, but the benefit of using HLS is to allow you to have a resolution that is right for the individual app or the individual device that you're watching all of this stuff on. But he says, slowly, I'm coming around to it, I need to play more with HLS. Well, silas, good news Silas is beginning to understand the benefits of HLS, so that's a fine thing Talking about feedback. I guess we should do this.

James Cridland: 53:26

Yes, so many different ways to get in touch with us Fan mail by using the link in our show notes, super comments on True Fans or boosts everywhere else, or, of course, email as well. And we share any money that we make too not with you, john, but Sam and I share all of that. We got a fan mail this week Fan mail, of course, through our sponsor, buzzsprout. You'll find a link in our show notes that says something like send Sam and James a text and a mysterious person ending3-6 from Akron. Is that how you pronounce it in Ohio?

John McDermott: 54:01

Akron, Akron Ohio.

James Cridland: 54:02

Akron, akron. There you go, who, I suspect, is Dave Jackson. He says Preach on, james. Loved your rant on everything being called a podcast. Yes, there's a thing We've got some boosts as well. What was our first boost there, john?

John McDermott: 54:19

635 stats from Neil Veglio, who writes here's how radio listening is measured. Survey person. Have you ever listened to the radio? Person? Yes, survey radio stronger than ever. He's got me there. I have an industry friend who a certain newsletter comes out most mornings and four days a week. It's you know, radio is stronger than it's ever been. It's bigger than it was when Cousin Brucey was on WABC and we just look, guys, let's be a little real.

James Cridland: 54:46

I love this. So radio here every single year publishes something saying more people are listening to commercial radio than ever before. Well, yes, that's because here in Australia the amount of people who live in Australia is growing more than ever before every year, so there is a growing population. Amazingly, it means that more people do things that people do. But yes, neil is an ex-radio person. He's also co-hosted this show a long, long time in the past and yes, he has a view about radio surveys. I would just turn around and say that radio surveys are some of the biggest surveys that you will find anywhere in the world and they're all remarkably consistent. There's still nine out of 10 people listen to the radio every single week. And so there, neil, he does add. Just so James has a good excuse to crucify me.

James Cridland: 55:45

So consider yourself crucified 311 sats from the late Bloomer actor. He was talking about the UK podcast show or podcast show London doing a US version, which I said I don't think that they're going to do, because I think it would actually significantly harm the London event if they produced one in New York or something, and then lazy Americans wouldn't bother going all the way over to London. What the late bloomer actor says is could they consider using the success of the UK version by rotating it annually to other countries? So maybe the US next year, australia after that, then return to the UK. Perhaps that would maintain participation and allow locals of each country an opportunity to attend such a high quality event? I would say no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I agree.

James Cridland: 56:35

And the reason why I would say that is, firstly, podcast movement does that within the US, and it's just a frustration every single year to go. Where are we going this time? Does anybody know anything about Dallas? Or you know Denver? So all of that kind of stuff is just deeply irritating.

James Cridland: 56:56

And so, from my point of view, I think one of the reasons why the podcast show London has been so successful in the last four years is that it's been in the same venue. Everybody knows where that venue is, everybody knows where the good hotels are, everybody knows where the good pubs are now and the good restaurants, and you begin to. You know, ok, I'm not having to relearn something just to go to a conference, it's just somewhere where you know. I know where to buy a cheap sandwich if I want to go and find some lunch from the Amazon Fresh store just over the road. You know all of that kind of stuff. So I think that makes it much, much easier than finding a new place. I mean that venue that we went to in Chicago, john. I mean it was a venue that was 10 times bigger than it needed to be, wasn't it?

John McDermott: 57:46

A 20-minute walk from my room to the coffee bar yeah, it really was.

James Cridland: 57:51

I mean, you can see that being a fantastic venue for a large event. Podcast Movement Evolutions was charitably not a large event. Podcast Movement Evolutions was charitably not a large event. I mean over a thousand people there, but even so. So I think, yes, that was definitely a thing. What else have we got here? Oh, more Silas on Linux. Plenty of that. But he sent a massive, great big boost, hasn't he here?

John McDermott: 58:17

Yeah, I don't even want to properly pronounce the number, I'll read it One, two, three, four, five, six stats. That's a lot of sats.

James Cridland: 58:25

That is a lot of sats. Yes, what has he said? Why has he sent us that much?

John McDermott: 58:29

He says he's slightly bitter and sad about PodCamp. The drinks evening was good, though. Reason I say that was I stayed there until 10 past 10, talking to Elias and Claire. Having another effective day to code was okay too. I still use PodCamp's cancellation as motivation for developing, so I can just give you the money next time. Thanks, guys. I'm coming around on this, by the way, james.

James Cridland: 58:50

Yes, and I'll tell you what 123456s sats is. That is, 130 US dollars. Wow, ah, that's an incredible amount. So here's hoping it's in my umbral and Sam's umbral, but yeah, that is an incredible amount. So, silas, thank you for that. Thank you for looking after us. I know that we had some. I know that. Yes, the bar bill was slightly larger than Sam was expecting.

John McDermott: 59:21

I'm starting to get mad now that I'm paying a few dollars to do Sam's job for him, and he just made 65 bucks.

James Cridland: 59:30

Exactly. Well, there you go, you win some, you lose some, but yeah, so that was quite a thing. So, silas, thank you so much for that. He's also sent another couple of things talking about Visa and MasterCard. The internet's money is Visa and MasterCard, which is what I said last week.

James Cridland: 59:49

And he says, yes, and the cost benefits of Lightning Network don't matter that much for buying a T-shirt. But the difference, then, is being a universal standard. If everyone had a Lightning address, you could just send the money. Well, yes, but everybody's got a bank account and you can just send the money and it's relatively easy. So, yeah, so I can kind of see both sides on this. I would much rather that Visa, mastercard or V-Pay or Maestro or whatever credit card you use. I would just rather that payments were cheaper for that. That would for a small amount. I think that would make a bunch of sense. So, silas, thank you so much for that. Thank you also to the noteworthy 19 of which are power supporters at weeklypodnewsnet, of which, john, you are one of those. So thank you so much for that. Choose another five names from that list that you can see in front of you in very small type All right.

John McDermott: 1:00:50

Thank you to Cameron and Marshall and Matt and Mike and Dave, jackson and Rachel. That's six. That's six.

James Cridland: 1:00:56

That's brilliant. So what's happened for you this week, John? What is a normal week in the Calaroga Shark Media tower suite that you inhabit?

John McDermott: 1:01:05

I had a nice productive head-down week of just doing I call it watering the plants. So tweaked some artwork, wrote some promos and actually scheduled them, worked on the editorial calendar, hit up Apple for some promotion requests. I'm always obsessed with getting ahead as the weather gets nicer. I'm a big fan of Beach Friday, so if I could do five days working for I like to do that. But it's just been a very productive week of knocking down the pins and you know I like those weeks. You look at the end of it you go OK, everything's in good shape, the plants are watered, the promos are scheduled, the shows are loaded, we are trying to promote things. Just one of those are really good weeks. I do feel guilty, sitting here in Sam's super comfortable chair, that I didn't invent five new things to add to True Fans, but that's probably what Sam is doing. But whatever Adam talks about on today's show, we're working on that. Yes, yeah, yeah yeah, absolutely no.

James Cridland: 1:02:02

he's a good. He's always working, is Sam, even when he's on holiday drinking the wine? And I mean the photographs that he has been posting on his personal Facebook. But the photographs that he's been posting? I mean every single photograph looks like a chocolate box town in the middle of Europe somewhere. It looks absolutely fantastic. So yeah, there's definitely a nice holiday that Sam is currently having, I guess.

John McDermott: 1:02:32

Now, how about you? I know you've been working on your email, for one thing, because I kept emailing you to like 50 different addresses, because I didn't want to like, blow you off. But I was like, oh my God, this is bouncing back. Are you actually getting this? And because of the time difference, I'm like, oh, he's going to think I'm a crazy person. But what are you working on, james?

James Cridland: 1:02:49

Yes, I think Gmail has changed something, which means that I can't forward emails to Gmail very well anymore and it's kicking back errors and stuff like that. So who knows what's going on there, but anyway. So I've moved my email away from Gmail for now, and it's just not a great experience. It turns out that Apple Mail, the Apple Mail client on your actual computer, doesn't work very well and is quite buggy. Actual computer doesn't work very well and is quite buggy, which is a real shame because it's not a bad mail app, but, yes, it is not a good thing in terms of all of the bugs in there. So what I'm currently doing for the main Pod News newsletter is I'm reading all of my emails on my laptop using Apple Mail and then I'm replying on my laptop, but I have to delete the email on my phone because it works on my phone but doesn't work on my laptop, so it's just the most unpleasant experience.

James Cridland: 1:03:46

Anyway, if you've got a solution for email, then I would love to hear it. Not Mutt, adam, I don't want to use that, thank you very much. And not Thunderbird, because you know it's 2025. So if anybody else has got any ideas not Outlook, obviously then jamesatcridland is my personal email and also I've planned a holiday myself. I'm going to Darwin. Oh yeah, I'm looking forward to that. So Darwin will be well, I was going to say 30 degrees, which sounds really cold, but no, it'll be really warm, it'll be in the late 80s, early 90s, and it'll be fantastic up there. So I'm looking forward to that in early July. So I'm going to tell Sam that he needs to both find a guest and also to edit the show himself. So who knows what will happen. And that's it for this week. All of our podcast stories taken from the Pod News Daily newsletter at podnewsnet.

John McDermott: 1:04:51

And you can support the show by streaming sats. You can provide feedback using the Buzzsprout fan mail link in the show notes, send a super comment or become a power supporter like me. And you know, sam, you're welcome and the rest of the noteworthy 19 at weeklypodnewsnet. That's the way I did it. I found that was the easiest way to do it.

James Cridland: 1:05:09

Yes, it is excellent and it works with the internet's money, which, of course, is Visa and MasterCard. Our music is from TM Studios, our voiceover is Sheila D, we edit with Hindenburg and we're hosted and sponsored by Buzzsprout. Start podcasting, keep podcasting, thank you.

John McDermott: 1:05:24

John, thank you. Thanks for having me. Get updated every day. Subscribe to our newsletter at podnewsnet.

James Cridland : 1:05:32

Tell your friends and grow the show and support us, and support us and support us. The pod news. Weekly review will return next week. Keep listening.