Speaker 1: 0:00

The Pod News Weekly Review uses chapters the last word in podcasting news.

Speaker 2: 0:05

This is the Pod News Weekly Review with James Cridland and Sam Sethi.

James Cridland: 0:11

I'm James.

Sam Sethi: 0:11

Cridland, the editor of Pod News, and I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO of True Fans.

James Cridland: 0:16

Today. What are the Spanish doing to open RSS? Is podcasting taking over TV and how much money can you make with Patreon? This podcast is sponsored by Buzzsprout, with the tools, support and community to ensure you keep podcasting, Start podcasting, keep podcasting with buzzsproutcom.

Speaker 2: 0:34

From your daily newsletter, the Pod News Weekly Review.

Sam Sethi: 0:38

James, this is an interesting week. The backlash to Stephen Colbert seems to be that there's a lot of people writing about what is the future of TV, radio and podcasting, so I want to start off with a story that you had from a Spanish broadcaster called RTVE. They're blocking Antenapod. What's this one about?

James Cridland: 1:01

Yeah, so they are blocking a bunch of different podcast apps, but Antenapod is one of those, and what they are trying to do is they are trying to get you to use the RTVE website and the app basically, basically, what they're trying to do. So, very similar to the BBC, very similar to other public service broadcasters in Europe. They've done it in a particularly shoddy way, though, in that what they've done is they have a RSS feed which is published everywhere, which everybody can access, and then, obviously, the RSS feed is the menu. It links you to the food, in this case, the audio, but the audio is something that they are blocking depending on user agent, and they've blocked Antenapod for some reason.

James Cridland: 1:48

It's not very clear why they've blocked Antenapod. If you change the user agent to something else, then it downloads fine. So they've clearly blocked Antenapod. They're blocking other apps. They've basically said many of those platforms were making money from our content, but they have agreements with Apple and with Spotify and with YouTube, who are, oh yes, making money from their content. So I'm not quite sure what's going on, other than it's yet another public service broadcaster that is really quite keen that the public doesn't actually get to hear their broadcasts, which I've never really fully understood.

Sam Sethi: 2:31

Okay. So how are they making money's? Look at antenna pod. They are a free app. They're open source. How's antenna pod making money? They're not full stop. I just want to clarify. They're not right. I just want to be clear. They're not yes, there's.

James Cridland: 2:42

There's no advertising in there. It's free to download. More than that. So I wrote a long time ago. I wrote a piece on the Pod News website all about the unwritten contract between podcast publishers and apps, and it was basically saying that if you're a decent app, you promise to do this, and if you promise to do this, then you expect this from a podcast publisher. And that's basically what the unwritten contact is. Yeah, exactly, and Antenapod is doing everything right, including, by the way, setting a proper user agent, which is the thing that RTVE or RNE RNE is the name of the radio station, rtve is the name of the broadcaster. That user agent is the thing that they are using to block Antenapod, because they're doing it correctly. Amusingly, if they looked at your website at TrueFans and they went well, we don't like that very much they couldn't do anything about it because, of course, your website just uses the user agent of the browser, at least in a browser window, and they can't block those, because otherwise they block everybody's browser.

Sam Sethi: 3:49

Getting it wrong sometimes means you get it right.

James Cridland: 3:52

So it's an utter mess. I mean, I wouldn't mind, but you know, rtve has, you know, has trousered a lot of money from the Spanish taxpayer. I think the last time I looked it was somewhere like 1.2, 1.3 billion euro. One of the things that the Spanish government told RTVE not to do was you can no longer carry advertising, and so all of the money comes straight from the Spanish government. There's even in the law, in Spanish law. There is a particular clause in there that says that RTVE must be universally available. You know, available to everyone. And, of course, if you really want to dive deeply, the R&E audio app, the Apple podcast app, the Spotify app none of those are available on, you know, devices that aren't either Apple or Google. So it's just very irritating.

James Cridland: 4:51

But it's one of the many public service broadcasters, both in Europe but also in Canada, who have done really weird things in terms of access to their audio. So it's, you know, it's this very strange. Yeah, it's this very strange time where you've got the old guard who are desperately thinking oh my goodness, we need to stay relevant. How do we stay relevant? Well, we have to force people to download our own apps and we're going to stop our content being available everywhere else. I mean, fine if they want to do that, but please don't break RSS while you do that by still publishing RSS but just making the audio not work. I mean that's a really bad example. Rtve tell me that that's, for a technical reason, not good enough, and RTVE also tell me that they are going to look into Antenapod and whether or not Antenapod can actually get their content in future. But it's a mess, isn't it?

Sam Sethi: 5:50

It is, but just for clarity again, just for my purpose. So you can go to the website, you can stream it, but they're blocking downloads as well, aren't they?

James Cridland: 5:59

No, you can go to the website. Website. I mean, if you can see the RSS app, which anybody can, then most people will be able to download that audio perfectly happily just a normal MP3. It's just that they are specifically looking and going is this a download request from the Antenapod app? Oh it is, in which case we'll block it. Well, you know and why? They've never actually explained that to the folks who run Antenapod. So it's a real mess.

James Cridland: 6:30

But you know, you might remember, previous stories in this series have included the BBC blocking apps, specifically Google Podcasts, because they didn't fully understand how Google Podcasts worked. Radio Canada had a lawyer who was so inept he was sending legal demands to podcasters to take down content that wasn't even his, and Danish radio have also been removing shows from Open RSS in favour of its own app. So they're not the first. Doubtless they won't be the last. But yeah, but it's a bit of a mess and it's just a typical arrogant public broadcaster view of our content is so excellent we are going to force you to download our own app and unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way anymore.

Sam Sethi: 7:17

No, it doesn't. But coming back to the BBC, the sounds app is going to close for non-UK audiences next week. Isn't this the same thing? This is the King Canute. The Sounds app is going to close for non-UK audiences next week. Isn't this the same thing? This is the King Canute thing. We're going to hold back the tide of time and technology. We're going to close ranks. We're gatekeepers. We're going to have everything within our walled gardens and, you know, hell to everyone else. Really, what does the BBC think they're going to achieve by closing down everything else outside the UK?

James Cridland: 7:48

Well, the BBC has obviously international radio in the BBC World Service. You can still hear that on the BBC app and you can hear that elsewhere as well. It's also got Radio 4, which is all speech. But what it also has, of course, course, in the uk is it's got radio one and radio two, which play lots of music and six music and one extra and all of those things, and local radio and everything, everything else can't say I've actually heard any of those radio stations you just mentioned for about a decade no, well, you know, yeah, well, well, there we are.

James Cridland: 8:21

But there are, there are lots of people who do, and, and so all of those radio stations all carry music, which, of course, is not the BBC. The BBC doesn't own the music, and so there has always been this sort of unwritten rule for streaming radio stations weirdly only for streaming radio stations that basically says you're fine to broadcast around the world online as long as you don't market your radio stations outside of the area that you're fine to broadcast around the world online as long as you don't market your radio stations outside of the area that you're licensed for and as long as you don't earn any money from those radio stations outside the area that you're licensed for. So as soon as you start marketing to listeners in the US, or you start earning money from listeners in the US, then all of a sudden you've got to pay US music rights, and the same goes for Australia, and the same goes for Norway, and the same goes for, you know, spain and everything else. And so what the BBC has done is they've got themselves into a little pickle where, all of a sudden, bbc studios the commercial side of the BBC wants to earn an awful lot of money from non-UK audiences and has realised that it can't link to any of the BBC's domestic radio stations anymore, because if it does so, then it's then promoting those stations from a website with ads on it, and so all of a sudden it means that all of those radio stations will have to pay music rights in every single country across the world, which the BBC can't afford to do. So it's a bit of a total mess.

James Cridland: 9:53

And what the BBC has done really weirdly is if you want to keep on listening to Radio 2, for example, which plays music for 30-something females, if you want to listen to that radio station, great, but you won't be able to listen on a BBC app at all, but you will be able to listen on other apps. So if you want to go and find TuneIn or something, that'll still have Radio 2 on it globally, but you won't be able to get it from the BBC's apps because then the BBC might have to pay some music licensing fees. So it's a total, utter mess and the BBC might have to pay some music licensing fees. So it's a total, utter mess. And they've miscommunicated this all the way for the last six months or so and they're continuing to miscommunicate all of this, you know, as we go.

James Cridland: 10:38

But yeah, it's a very, very strange old thing. But yes, that's the bizarreness of what's going on with the BBC right now, and what they've also done is closed down all of the catch-up radio. So the only way that you can listen to time-shifted radio now outside of the UK is to listen to these things called podcasts, which is, you know, I suppose, a thing.

Sam Sethi: 10:57

Yes, now, on the back of that, james. Then they have their annual report and account. So clearly, the strategy must be telling us yay, this closing down and locking down, this is all working wonderfully for them, isn't it Well?

James Cridland: 11:09

yes, I'm not sure it's working particularly well for them. No, exactly.

Sam Sethi: 11:14

I think that's called sarcasm.

James Cridland: 11:16

Yes, no. So if you look at total time spent which, as you know, is the stat that I care about total time spent on the BBC Sounds app has not increased at all in the last year 17.3 million hours a week. Total plays has increased slightly, but not very much, and certainly total audience. Well, it's gone up a little bit. The reason why it's gone up a little bit is that last year they cocked up and they got the wrong figures, so they've restated last year's figures as a little bit lower. And now they're saying and they got the wrong figures, so they've restated last year's figures as a little bit lower. And now they're saying and we get more than that now. So that's nice, but those listeners that they do have are getting older, so you know. So there might have been an increase in users, but actually they've shed some young audiences and have got more old people tuning in, which is not a long-term strategy. So, yeah, so they've got all of that going on.

James Cridland: 12:10

Plus, the BBC is also just suddenly thought oh, we should, maybe in the US we do quite well, so maybe we should put the entire BBC website behind a subscription wall, which is what they've done. So if you want to visit bbccom in the US, then all you get now is a big screen saying, hey, you should subscribe. I think it's $6.99 a month for access to the slightly beige news that the BBC ends up making. So, yeah, it's just. It seems to me like a, you know, like a slow march to irrelevance, to be honest, but that's the way that the BBC is thinking. So there we are.

Sam Sethi: 12:54

Well, I guess they've got pressure right. So we here in the UK pay a tax, a radio tax, fundamentally a TV tax, for you know the license that we have, but the government's putting that under pressure. They can't put it up. They are losing talent left, right and center, all over the place, and they're losing what I would say is a lot of content rights as well. You know most of the things like sport and it's gone from them. We've got, you know, other channels, so there isn't really much that attracts you back into the BBC, as in content, and they can't put advertising. You talked about them having to pay money out to music rights holders. I think they're under so much economic pressure from different angles I don't really know what they can do.

James Cridland: 13:43

Yeah, they are. I mean, they are, of course, this is exactly what they want you to think, because they're in the middle of the renegotiation of what that licence fee is going to be, and so they need kind of to paint a bit of a bleak picture, because, at the end of the day, everybody in the UK or most people in the UK maybe not you, sam, but most people in the UK love the BBC and thinks that the BBC does a really good job.

Sam Sethi: 14:06

Oh no, I would be gutted if the BBC went away. It's like the NHS. I think it's what makes Britain one of the things that I love about, but I think they are being politically used as a pawn and I think the pressure on them maybe they need to become a commercial entity. I don't know the answer to the question, but increasing the BBC licence will not be something that people want. You can't opt out of not having a BBC licence. You can, illegally, of course, but you're not meant to. So it's a mandatory tax, so I don't know where to go with it.

James Cridland: 14:41

Well, you kind of can, in that the BBC licence is legally yours to pay if you consume the BBC's television content. Weirdly, radio is free, but the BBC's television content, if you consume that in any way, shape or form now that is consuming it both live and consuming it on demand through the iPlayer. If you're doing either one of those things, then you are liable for the licence fee. But it's kind of an honesty thing, if you like, in that nobody's checking whether or not you've actually paid a licence fee to get a TV TV detector licence vans.

James Cridland: 15:15

Yeah, the TV detector licence vans which have never really worked and which certainly won't work now. They never exist. Now they never exist. Yeah, so it's. I mean, you know, the other way of doing it is either the BBC takes advertising and no one wants that, not even the commercial broadcasters, because that will absolutely get rid of all of their income. So the commercial radio and TV broadcasters don't want the BBC to take advertising.

James Cridland: 15:40

A subscription probably won't work. Advertising A subscription probably won't work. Certainly you won't get 95% of the UK paying it. So that's an issue. And then you have a look at well, what are the other options? Well, the other options are a government grant. Come back to RTVE. That's what RTVE gets in Spain.

James Cridland: 16:06

It's a government grant of here's an amount of money direct from the government and go away and run your services from that. It's the way that the ABC works here in Australia. It's the way that a fair amount of other things work. And the reason why we've got this TV licence malarkey is that government has never really wanted to just give tax to the BBC and so we've got this sort of strange thing that kind of works for the BBC, because then they can say that they're independent of government and all of that. But yeah, it's a difficult thing.

James Cridland: 16:33

I think a government grant, by the way, is the right thing to end up doing, and I think the way of doing that is to actually set it so that it is as as miss what's the word I'm looking for. I don't want it in joined in with who the government of the day is. So some way of setting the amount of money that the bbc gets, that isn't just the government of the day turning around and going. You hate us and you're saying all these mean things about us. You can only get half the money next year, which has happened for a ton of other broadcasters. So some way in law to make that work. But I'm sure that there's a way in law to make that work somehow. Well, is NPR the equivalent of the BBC? Kind of is, but it kind of isn't. So NPR is a producer of programmes. It doesn't own any radio stations, so it's a producer of programmes that go on to some of its member stations, which are all independent. Npr gets a little bit of money from the….

Sam Sethi: 17:35

Gets a lot less money right.

James Cridland: 17:38

Well, it's only really got…. Npr itself has only really got a very small amount, less than 1% of all of the revenue that NPR got from government. Now Donald Trump has got rid of that money. I understand 1.1 billion.

James Cridland: 17:53

Well, it's 1.1 billion, but it's 1.1 billion for all of public television which NPR is not, and all of public radio which kind of NPR really isn't. Npr's got a very small amount of that money Now. Wnyc in New York or the radio station in Chicago or the radio station in San Francisco or in LA those radio stations get direct money from that same pot of $1.1 billion, but that's different money to the money that goes to NPR. So it's all a little bit sort of messy and complicated and clearly it's bad news for them. Clearly we're seeing stories from individual public broadcasters in the US saying we're going to have to fire a ton of people. So yeah, so that's.

James Cridland: 18:44

It's not good news coming out of the US either. You know, and frankly I mean the media is in a bad place anyway, regardless of just looking at the public broadcasters. I mean commercial broadcasters are really struggling. I was talking with one commercial broadcaster who was saying that total revenues for them are down 15% this year so far. Others are talking about even larger numbers. So it's really hard for them too. So it's you know, it's a difficult place to be, which is why it's interesting seeing how podcasting is continuing to succeed right now and continuing to get more of the money.

Sam Sethi: 19:24

Quick question because it's just top of mind in the revenue that commercial operations get, Do you watch any adverts, James?

James Cridland: 19:33

I do not. No, no, no. Nor do I. Why is that, james? Because I'm rich enough and so I pay to get rid of them on YouTube. I don't watch very much on-demand commercial TV here, or even live commercial TV here, and so I'm either consuming the public broadcaster or I have paid to get rid of them?

Sam Sethi: 19:58

Yeah, that they don't seem to have an answer to. Is that the advertisers who want to reach the ABC1s, the 18 to 40 or 55-year-olds. I'm outside of that bracket now. You're in it and I'm CDE now. I think I'm old, old man. No, cde, old man.

James Cridland: 20:19

No, you're definitely not CDE. You drive a Range.

Sam Sethi: 20:21

Rover.

Speaker 2: 20:23

I'm OAP, am I? You're definitely still ABC1.

James Cridland: 20:27

Definitely still ABC1. Interestingly, I only learned that ABC1, by the way, abc1 and C2DE those are things in the UK and no one else understands whenever you talk about it. Abc1s are educated people who are richer than everybody else and are better educated, essentially, and C2DEs are, you know, manual workers, people that left school at the age of 16, you know, et cetera, et cetera, on a very broad brush basis. Nothing to do with age, though, and so you can be old or young and fantastically rich or fantastically not it's fantastically rich or fantastically not, but I only mentioned that.

Sam Sethi: 21:08

Moving on, I only mentioned that because, fundamentally, if you have a situation where advertisers are trying to get into podcasting TV, whatever radio, and the advertisers are getting blocked out because people are paying to block them out, then there is a problem there. Now again, I just we've talked about that before, but I just wanted to mention it in the in the light of commercial revenues. Now, ofcom, which is the UK's regulatory body for radio, they've announced a report.

Sam Sethi: 21:37

it's TV as well, isn't it? They've announced a report this week and one of the things that stood out to me was Ofcom warns traditional public service TV is endangered. So, on the light of what we've talked about with Spanish RTVE and the BBC, what did Ofcom have to say?

James Cridland: 21:55

Well, so they've made a number of recommendations. So they have to do this every two years, which is interesting. It's part of Ofcom's. You know, the laws that made Ofcom exist is that every couple of years they have to release a report on the broadcasting ecosystem in the UK. And this time round they've released this thing which basically says public service TV is in a really bad shape.

James Cridland: 22:21

And public service TV in the UK, by the way, is all of the big legacy broadcasters you know BBC, Channel 4, channel 5, itv. They all have public service broadcaster things that they have to do. So kids TV or news, a particular amount of news and all this kind of stuff. They're told to do all of those things so that they get access to the spectrum essentially. And what Ofcom is saying is that they're in trouble.

James Cridland: 22:51

Ofcom is saying that you know, if TV goes away, if broadcast TV goes away, then we need more clarity on what that means for the media. I'm sure the media would agree there. They're saying that broadcasters must work more together and with global tech firms to survive. And then they say urgent steps must be taken to ensure that public service media content is easy to find and discover on third party platforms which is interesting because that goes back to the RTVE conversation they are pulling all of their content off third party platforms. Yet in the UK, the UK regulator is saying no, you should be easy to find and discover on these platforms, one of them being YouTube. So they're basically my suspicion is that they will be talking to YouTube and basically saying you must now have X percent of all of the content which is on your website or in your algorithms or whatever it is, must be from a public service broadcaster.

James Cridland: 23:57

I suspect that that's what they're going to try and do. Good luck with that. But you know because I mean Ofcom only 10 years or so ago, ofcom are the people that run the electronic programme guide on your TV. So when we first got satellite TV and it first had this beautiful electronic programme guide and where all of the channels were and there was the BBC and there was Sky and there was BBC News and blah, blah, blah. Ofcom is the regulator for that too, and there are lots of rules around where TV stations can appear in that electronic programme guide. So just the same way they're trying to, they're realising that the electronic programme guide itself is going away and that more people are consuming this stuff through third-party platforms like YouTube. So now they're going well, we should be regulating that as well. So there's quite a lot of Good luck.

Sam Sethi: 24:53

Trying to keep relevant. Good luck getting YouTube to agree to that. Yeah, right.

James Cridland: 24:56

Yes, but you know, I mean I can see where Ofcom is coming at that. There's a very good podcast for you to go and have a listen to. It's the Media Club with Matt Deegan. That has a special episode with somebody from Ofcom, Christina Nicolotti-Squires there's a name talking about what some of their recommendations are. But, yeah, fascinating to watch that going on at the same time as what we've just seen from the Spanish broadcaster as well.

Sam Sethi: 25:27

Yeah, just one other story related to this before we move on. The BBC is about to launch a daily news podcast called the Global Story, and they've got a reporter in the US and a reporter in the UK and it will debut in September. But this is available both in the UK on the BBC Sounds, but outside the UK on bbccom and the BBC app. So they've suddenly made this super open and everywhere. So is this going to be their future strategy? Are they going to unlock the sounds and put more open, or is this just a one-off?

James Cridland: 26:02

Yeah, so pretty well, every podcast that the BBC produces is available everywhere. It's available on Apple Podcasts, it's available on Spotify, it's available on all of these, but delayed in some cases.

James Cridland: 26:12

All of these services Delayed in a very small amount of cases and my suspicion is that delay will go away, because you know how will you force me to download the BBC Sounds app when I can't anymore? So my suspicion is that that delay will go away. I mean, I did ask the BBC back in February what the plan was there. I didn't get much of an answer and pretty well everything that I asked them they've changed their mind on anyway. So the global story, this particular show if you're listening in the UK, you will hear that show as it's made. If you're listening outside of the UK, it'll have advertising on it advertising at the beginning, the middle and the end, as all of the BBC shows do. And apparently it's a brand new show called the Global Story.

James Cridland: 27:00

So let's not talk about the one that they launched a couple of years ago, which was, oh yes, a brand new daily news podcast called the Global Story, which they quietly got rid of in March. So it's coming back. It's absolutely not debuting. That's exactly what their press release said Debuting it's not debuting, but the plan with this new, revamped version is that it'll be, by the looks of it, run editorially by the BBC in the US, not the BBC in the UK, and it'll have both US and UK folk doing it, and some of the US people are ex-NPR and ex-The Daily, which is interesting. I think that tells you quite a lot about where the future of the BBC is.

Sam Sethi: 27:43

Anyway, let's move on, james. Well, I say let's move on, but it's more of the same really, because the Telegraph in the UK is explaining how podcasts are taking over TV. What did they say?

James Cridland: 27:58

Well, yes, so this was an article in the Telegraph and then there was another article in the New York Times, both talking about TV and podcasting, the Telegraph claiming that the bleeding well, rather writing down about the bleeding of audio shows into television poses a new threat to traditional broadcasters, says the Telegraph, who hates the BBC and hates everything that the BBC stands for. So that's probably the reason why they ended up going there. The New York Times was interesting because they had anecdotes from their readers saying how they watch podcasts and most of them said it's on the telly while I'm doing something else. It's almost as if it's something for the ears when the eyes are busy. It's almost that.

James Cridland: 28:44

So I should get some stickers made. That would be nice. Yeah, so Did you put a trademark at the end of that thing? So some really interesting stuff going on there. And, of course, edison Research's Podcast Consumer 2025 study came out yesterday and again said a lot of stuff about video podcasts. Over half of the US has now watched a video podcast 37% have watched one in the last month and so video podcasts are definitely a thing, albeit, you know, it's kind of you know where does a podcast stop and where does a TV show start.

Sam Sethi: 29:25

Well, I think video podcasts are the new TV I just do. That's my opinion. I mean, the report said I think podcasts could become the kind of new basic cable television. I think I agree with them and I think live podcasting, if we get it right, could be the new radio. I mean, we've talked about for many years me watching my teenage children, who are now in their twenties, how they consumed video content on YouTube and it's like in the corner they're listening to it and then they'll just look at it occasionally.

Sam Sethi: 29:52

We've talked about YouTube saying that you know smart TVs are their biggest platform. I think you know we just have to get used to the idea that the younger generation is consuming content in that way and we talked about the BBC report which is getting older and a different demographic and they are using traditional gatekeeper models because that's what they're used to, whereas the younger generation consume it in a very different way and I think people are getting to understand that Now. I think also on the back of that, you did your Radioland report, which is a radio newsletter that you do, and one of the things that it's came out in that report, which may be going back to what we said earlier, but I think I don't know if it's the same report part, but it showed it had a declining and aging medium. You know, can you?

James Cridland: 30:41

is that what it?

Sam Sethi: 30:42

what you said in that report?

James Cridland: 30:44

sorry yeah, I mean, you know I was again. I was looking through the BBC annual report, which has lots, lots and lots and lots of information, and, yes, you know pointing out a couple of the more interesting bits of data from that report. So you know pointing out that total time spent listening to the app was static and that their audience was getting older. There's also some very interesting data in there around what people are listening to in their app, for example and this again is radio rather than TV, but what people are listening to live speech and live music is much the same, but then on-demand speech is about 10 times as big as on-demand music radio shows. So virtually nobody is listening to on-demand music radio shows, even though that's actually all of the bother and all of the hassle that you're currently hearing online from people complaining about their app going away. So it's a really interesting set of data that. So if there's one thing that the BBC does very well, it's that annual report, which has a lot of information in it.

Sam Sethi: 31:56

Now related to this, Jack Sylvester, who is the producer of Diary of a CEO with Stephen Bartlett, put out a post on LinkedIn that said the Diary of a CEO just hit a wild milestone. We're now reaching 3 million people every single day and I thought, wow, that is amazing. But then I wanted to compare that to TV audiences and to things like Stephen Colbert and maybe Medea San and stuff like that. So I had a quick look around the one show which is BBC's, one prime time programme show which is bbc's one time one prime time program gets around three million every night. That's its prime time show six o'clock on the bbc or 6 30 I never watch it but anyway. But when you look at that, stephen colbert gets 2.47 million, kimmel gets 1.75, fallon 1.25, seth myers gets 900 under a million. So you look at Diary of a CEO at 3 million and that is bigger than all the network main TV late night shows combined not combined, you know, in their own interest, yeah, but I know, yeah, I know, I know what you mean and it's such.

James Cridland: 33:05

and you know again, what is that 3 million and what is that you know? And what is that 3 million number from Diary of a CEO and what is the 2.4 million? I think it was from Stephen Colbert 4 million, by the way.

James Cridland: 33:18

Yeah, well, yes, yes indeed. But they're measuring different things, because Stephen Colbert is measuring people watching that TV show for a minimum of whatever it is these days four minutes, eight minutes. But whatever it is a minimum of four minutes or eight minutes on a live broadcast TV channel it doesn't measure all of the people who are consuming clips of that show on YouTube. It doesn't measure any of that other information. It's just purely a live broadcast number, which is a very different figure to the one that Jack Sylvester at Flight Studio has published about Diary of a CEO, because that's essentially the number from YouTube.

James Cridland: 34:03

And how long do you have to watch a video on YouTube? Less than a second for you to actually count. And so you know that is probably an algorithm of oh, you know, I've just finished watching this mad person talking about some weird medical claim and then all of a sudden it skipped over to somebody doing much the same on diary of a CEO. Oh, I don't want to watch that, I'll watch something else, guess what. You've just been counted as a viewer in that particular case. So, yeah, I mean, you know he, you know Jack's posted this lovely thing saying you know, let me put that into perspective it's filling the O2 arena 150 times. It's the population of Wales. It's the amount of podcasts that existed in 2024. Yeah, except no, because you're not measuring the same thing. It's not a real people number, but of course it's a number that you can see in the YouTube studio thing, isn't it?

Sam Sethi: 35:02

So yeah, I just thought it was interesting that again, maybe it's just me trying to see is this a trend? Are we extrapolating where the gatekeepers, the CBSs, the ABCs, are losing audience, the BBC aging audience, rte in Spain closing down, and then the converse of that is podcasting and video podcasting growing. I mean, the call to Stephen Colbert has been very loud this week. Just go and run and start your own channel. You look at Mehdi Hassan, who was dropped from CNN and he went and started his own Zateo and he's absolutely gangbustering it now. You look at Tucker Carlson, one of the best interviews he did with Ted Cruz. You know, this week, mehdi Hassan sitting with 24 far-right racists. I mean it was just amazing watching that and listening to it.

Sam Sethi: 35:51

Again, this is where I find most of the you know, the real good content coming from. It's not mainstream media. I don't watch mainstream TV, nor the news. I consume it through racist politics and newsagents. This is where I am. I think this is where most people are going to. I think it older people who are staying, you know, in the mainstream. I turn it on at six o'clock and I watch coronation street after and then emmerdale, and then they just watch the linear schedule that you talked about from offcom. I think we're seeing a massive shift in trend, and I can see kim or fallon and the others going. Hang on a minute. I could probably make more money doing what these guys are doing now. You know Megyn Kelly's worked this out. I just think Fox and the others are going to really struggle, and especially when they're getting sued every five minutes as well, by the way. So I don't know.

James Cridland: 36:38

Well, yes, yeah, absolutely. And you know, and look, I mean I read something that there's been a plethora of stuff at all talking about Stephen Colbert. I mean, more frankly, more articles than Stephen Colbert has viewers, which I find particularly confusing, but anyway, but you know, and one of them was saying, look, you know, as someone that was going to sell books as an author, yes, I'm sad about Stephen Colbert going, but actually I sold far more books on some small podcasts that just had a more focused audience and I thought, well, that probably tells you quite a lot that actually, you know, the Late Show, for all of its glitz and glamour, was, yes, only reaching two point something million, but also actually wasn't really moving, you know, that country forward in terms of going to watch a movie or going to buy a book or whatever it ended up being, because it was reaching so few people. Now, and I think you know that, with also the fact that it was clearly losing quite a lot of money. You know is an issue there as well.

Sam Sethi: 37:48

I think what was it? 40 million to make 200 staff and it was at a loss.

James Cridland: 37:53

No, it was losing 40 million.

Sam Sethi: 37:55

Sorry, it cost 100 million to make and yeah, and it had 200 staff but somebody said very wisely during covid all of those late night shows managed to do it from home with a skeleton staff and they've been trained. So actually, if they all went back home or to a small studio with a skeleton staff of, let's say, eight or ten, they could still deliver the same value content without all of the extras.

James Cridland: 38:21

It'll be interesting to watch, I think yeah, but it but it, but it wasn't it. I mean it was a pretty depressing watch. And yes, absolutely you can make a lot of media things cheaper by making them worse. And you know there is there's a question mark on. You know what would happen to Stephen Colbert's show if, instead of 200 people, he had 150? I think there's an absolutely valid question mark to ask, you know, to ask yourself there, but could you still produce that sort of show if you had five people? You know doing it. No, I don't think so, especially from home. So I, I, I, I kind of you know the the. It would be very easy just to turn around and say, well, let's just make it from a, you know, from a backlot somewhere in in the middle of in the middle of Arkansas, but it's not, it's not going to be the same thing, is it?

Speaker 1: 39:15

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Speaker 2: 39:45

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Sam Sethi: 39:53

Okay, james, let's move on. Okay, we haven't got a jingle, but it's the YouTube time. The YouTube reports that were out this week a guy called Nick here blogged about. There is no real alternative to YouTube for video on the internet. I'm sure PeerTube would say differently, and I'm sure others would as well, but really and Spotify probably would argue with that- yeah, yeah, yeah.

James Cridland: 40:18

But for a creator is, I think, the point that he was making. For a creator, yes, peertube, lovely, great, brilliant, okay, thanks. But for a creator who wants their stuff viewed and found, peertube, lovely, great, brilliant, okay, thanks. But for a creator who wants their stuff viewed and found, peertube, I'm afraid. No, sorry, everybody's going to YouTube. And so he's absolutely right. He ended up saying if someone does not like how their podcast host is behaving, they can move their show, but this is not the case for video. Arguably, you could say Spotify versus YouTube, maybe, but even then I don't think really that Spotify is a good alternative. So, yes, well, okay, I mean I think he's got a point.

Sam Sethi: 40:57

Yeah, and I know that the Podcast Standards Project and various podcasting Tiddo apps and hosts are working to try and provide an alternative, but that isn't fully baked out yet. Now YouTube also, on their blog, posted the new rules of podcasting. Top takeaways from our talk with John Ushair and YouTube's Steve McClendon lovely man that he is I thought this was really interesting looking at some of the key takeaways. The first one was the line is blurring. Every podcaster is a creator. I agree I don't think all podcasters now are single audio. I mean lots are and lots will remain. But I think many of the top five percent, whatever the number you want to call, I think, are multi-screened now.

Sam Sethi: 41:41

Their audio, their video I mean I look at most of the video podcasts that I consume. They are, are also audio and you know they're not single function. The other one is video isn't just an option, it's your engine for discovery. Just what you said two seconds ago. You know if you, if you are doing video, you better be on YouTube If you're audio only and I think this is a little bit naughty, but if you're audio it makes discovery way harder. They said. I think you know that's just a video platform saying you know you can only be video first, but again, what do you?

James Cridland: 42:14

think, yeah, I think, two salespeople from YouTube telling us why YouTube is the future for all of creation is very exciting, but you know, how much does YouTube care about podcasting? How much would YouTube care if podcasting fell over tomorrow and stopped? They wouldn't, because they've still got enough content from coming in elsewhere. And that's my, you know. My worry about YouTube's current infatuation with podcasting, in a nutshell, is that they see us as being lots of free content for them to sell advertising with, and that's as far as they go. And so, of course, they're going to turn around and say, oh, every podcaster is a creator, every creator is a podcaster. Well, yeah, fine, but at the end of the day, you just want more free content and you want content that is successful and works well. And hey, guess what? That's a podcast. So, yeah, I kind of get that.

James Cridland: 43:14

They talked a bit about thumbnails and how important thumbnails are, and they then talked about something which I do agree with, but again, this is algorithms, talking about YouTube giving your back catalogue a second life, and YouTube is very good. Its algorithm is very good at surfacing older content, and so what YouTube's recommendation engine can do is it can get more people listening to some of your older shows, and I would agree in terms of that. The way that most podcast apps work is that they are specifically driven for the newest show. That's where shows appear in podcast apps and there's very little ways of finding older shows in there, and that's not something that's clever in terms of YouTube, that's something that's bad in terms of podcast apps, and we kind of need to fix that somehow.

Sam Sethi: 44:10

Yeah, yeah, I agree. The last one was Steve McClendon. I thought this was quite interesting. He said YouTube is committed to making the platform the best place for podcasters. Okay, that's words. Let's see the actions. And we're trying to make podcasts shine, especially on televisions, which is their big push, I guess. And he pointed out to the launch of the official podcast charts as a new way to measure and celebrate success. It was interesting that these charts are driven by watch time, and again we talk about listen time in podcasting and it's good to see that they're using watch time as a metric. So, going back to what you said about the diary of a CEO, one second requires a play or whatever, which generates that three million and I remember we questioned their one billion plays as well, based on you know how much of that. But if they're focusing on watch time as a metric of their charts, then clearly you have to watch more to get higher. That's a good thing, isn't?

James Cridland: 45:05

it. I mean, yeah, I mean it's good in terms of them because that's the way that they will earn more money as well, because obviously, the more you watch and use the YouTube platform, the more that you can put advertising in there. So I think it's interesting that their chart and they say the podcast charts there's only one. So let's be really clear there's only one. It's for the US, but you can see it if you like, and that's all fine. By the way, would you like to guess who the number one is?

Sam Sethi: 45:35

Rogan no, no, okay, go on then. Yeah, no idea, go on.

James Cridland: 45:42

All right. The number five is Kill Tony. Number four, the Diary of a CEO. Number three, the Midas Touch Podcast. Number two, the Joe Rogan Experience. And number one is Call Her Daddy, oh.

Sam Sethi: 45:52

I was going to say Mel Robbins, okay, yeah.

James Cridland: 45:54

No, she is nowhere in here that I can see. Weird.

Sam Sethi: 45:59

Strangely, she was number one everywhere a little while back.

James Cridland: 46:02

Yes, no, I thought so too. There are some very strange ones as you go a little bit further down. Quite a lot of these, of course, is the definition of a podcast, so it comes back to that. But yeah, you know. So I can certainly understand, you know their point of view in terms of making sure that, yeah, that they are pushing total time spent as their chart. I mean it doesn't help by the fact that it then says most popular podcast shows on YouTube, most popular, longest watched, surely, but anyway Well, how do you?

James Cridland: 46:37

measure popularity? Well, yes, I suppose so. But I mean, that figure is nice because it also ties into a new piece of data from Nielsen, who looks at all of the on-demand streamers, and YouTube is again the biggest. But now just posted a new record 12.8% of all usage of TVs in the US. 12.8% is to YouTube. That's a pretty astounding number. Now, apparently it usually goes up at this sort of time and the it usually goes up at this sort of time, and the reason why it goes up at this sort of time is that kids are out for holidays and they are spending a lot of time with their smart TVs and other things watching YouTube. So that probably explains a little bit of that, and Netflix has also gone up as a result. But yeah, 12.8% of all TV usage in the US is quite a thing.

Sam Sethi: 47:33

And it goes back to that comment about cable TV networks. If they're losing the likes of Colbert and the others and TV usage increasing on apps like YouTube, then it makes sense for those people to go independent and push out to that platform as their new means of monetising their content. It does.

James Cridland: 47:52

It does, and also on the other side, you can also look at if you were to look at podcasting, openrss and all of that where does the money come from? Is not that easily apparent to a creator? Whereas if you look at YouTube, you go, oh that's fine, if we're big enough, youtube will pay us some money. And so I don't think we've got even the story rights to creators in terms of OpenRSS, because OpenRSS, of course, is not built to earn money.

Sam Sethi: 48:19

Now moving on then well, literally moving on then Patreon and other paywalls. It started off the reason I put this story in the script, james, was it started off with a report that you put that there was a women's running podcast that wanted to use Discord as a discussion area and that's how it would get paid subscribers. And I was like God, that's weird. Why would you do that? I mean, you know, I know the podcast dance project has got a Discord chat thing and I hate.

Sam Sethi: 48:51

But most people I think we've said on this show as a trend and when I say most that's not probably the right adjective most are looking towards patreon or memberful or paywall sites. And what was interesting for me was that there was a guy called joe budden who, again, I've not listened, but he is saying he's earning more than $1 million per month on Patreon from podcasting. So when you're asking where's the money coming from, I think, again, if we go back to what we said earlier, those people that can afford to not have adverts do not get adverts, but the people who want quality content are now willing to pay for it and it seems that Patreon, memful and others are getting the money.

James Cridland: 49:34

Yes, but this is a very so. This is in the US, particularly, although you know, it'll be interesting to understand from Girlhanger what's going on in terms of their. I think they use Supporting Cast for their tools, so it'll be interesting to find out what they're doing there, but certainly in the US. Yes, you're right. I mean Joe Budden saying that he's earning more than a million dollars a month on Patreon. By the way, he's not just saying that the New York Times have seen his figures, as indeed Patreon have, because Patreon were the people who sent me the story and said look, look, how big we are and you know. And Patreon ended up saying, look, you know.

James Cridland: 50:16

The reason why Joe Budden has released these numbers isn't just because he's very proud. He also wants to point out that it's possible for creators to maintain control over their IP and audience, stay independent and still build massive, sustainable businesses on Patreon. So perhaps the Patreon, or the value for value because that's basically what this is the value for value side of podcasting is something that we should be promoting more, rather than just advertising and just sit back and the sponsors will come.

Sam Sethi: 50:48

Yeah, yeah. And look we've been talking about just sit back and the sponsors will come. Yeah, yeah. And look, we've been talking about the funding tag and the adoption of it and that's linking out to say patron. I think we talked about, and I said I think Spotify will soon, though, work out that actually the SOA, the Spotify Open Access, which was their way around the apple tax, is actually not smart, and they will actually cut ties with the sites like patreon, because they'll say actually that's money that's sitting on the table, that we've been giving away, that we can now take. So I think patreon right now is in a goldilocks moment. Right that they they are, you know, allowing creators to earn significant revenue, the funding tags pointing to them and Memful and others. They're doing very well with SOA and other things, but I think they are and I've said it before, they're my target. They're the type of company that I want to go after.

Sam Sethi: 51:41

I think advertising driven podcasting is under significant pressure because I think I've said on numerous cases, I don't think the metrics of measurement are very good currently and I think people are willing now more to pay for quality content and I think content creators don't want the interruption of a Casper mattress in the middle of their show when that interrupts the flow. So I think again I'm just looking at trends here. I think we're seeing gatekeepers on mainstream media. I think the pressure's on them. I think we're also seeing a pressure now on content creators to earn money. But the interesting thing with Substack, which is the opposite to Patreon well, it's not the opposite, but it's an alternative, which is the opposite to Patreon Well, it's not the opposite, but it's an alternative. I think they're the really interesting one to watch for me because they are building customer portals or creator portals, which is what Adam Curry was talking about, which anyone who's listened to the show will know he's called the Rachel Maddow problem.

Sam Sethi: 52:42

It's this destination endpoint. So YouTube is not a destination endpoint. Spotify is not a destination endpoint, because you can't brand it, you can't own the URL, you can't create your home on the web. You know getyourowncom, but the Zateo media network run by Mehdi Hassan, runs on Substack. They had a newsletter, but if you look at it now, it's Zateocom, which is actually a Substack platform, and they've got their merch and they've got their donate and they've got their podcasts and they've got their blogs and they've got their newsletter and it is that, I think, is the future personally for me, where I think this is all going. Creators are going to aggregate all their audio video and news and everything and events and everything, and he does live podcasting from there as well. I think it's a really interesting platform.

James Cridland: 53:35

Yeah, it's, I mean it's definitely interesting. Doing it under your own dot com, of course, makes the most amount of sense, and whether or not you use Substack under the hood or supporting cast or other people, then you know all of that makes sense. I think you know Substack is. You know I mean it's a slicker WordPress in many ways and yeah, and I think it's. You know it's certainly interesting. But you know, I mean obviously the best way to do it, if you possibly can, is to have everything using your own code on your owncom yeah, you know, that certainly helps.

Sam Sethi: 54:10

We won't see that you can do.

James Cridland: 54:13

No, indeed, I can, I can do that and many other people can't. So, yes, totally get that. By the way, patreon is not is not cheap either. So they've, they've. They've just announced their new prices, and this is prices for new creators. So if you jumped on a long, long time ago, then you're still paying the prices then, but if you're a new creator, from August 4th you'll be paying.

James Cridland: 54:34

10% of all of the revenue that comes in goes straight to Patreon, which is still considerably lower than Apple charge apple charge but you know well, is it because patron had to pay apple, if you remember, 30 percent increase, yeah, but there that that goes. That's not patreon paying that, that's the, that's the creator that ends up paying that yeah, so it's a double whammy, isn't it?

Sam Sethi: 54:59

you're saying, patrons, prices have gone up and now you've got the tax on. Indeed, yes, so you've got that you you've got that too.

James Cridland: 55:06

So, yeah, you know, interesting to see how Patreon is doing, but certainly interesting, you know, to see Joe Budden, who is the LinkedIn, basically saying look, I only promote stuff that I'm a fan of, and that's a lovely, unique place to be Jordan and I'm very pleased that you only promote things that you're a big fan of. At the end of the day, there's also money to you know, to earn for your family and everything else, and I can't imagine that. You know Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart. You know massive, big fans of NordVPN, for example, or Fuse Energy or whoever else their advertisers are. So I do think that there's, you know, yes, obviously don't promote awful stuff Also. Yeah, there is, there is a bit of there's a bit of realism in that too.

Sam Sethi: 56:16

But also Stephen Bartlett, please don't promote your own products and then don't declare your investment. Anyway, yes, and the last thing I want to send to Tao, because you mentioned it WordPress. I think Automatic are a company that is I don't know what they're doing right. Pocket Cast plus Tumblr plus WordPress. It all should be aggregating together and be symbiotic. It's not. It's and I've had conversations, I won't say who with, but you know they're not talking internally, let's put it that way, and I think that's a missed missed opportunity. Well, there we are. Sam Sethi has spoken and, yes, everyone's just skipped past. So, anyway, moving on.

James Cridland: 57:03

I'm not going to do this next one now, as soon as you say everybody has skipped past. Dear listener, he was just about to embark onto the secure RSS conversation. Well, okay, now I might. Oh no, here we go.

Sam Sethi: 57:16

Okay, no, no, I'm not going to do the whole thing. So the whole thing, what I will say is that hosts are foolish. Right, they are missing out on massive amounts of money. You said it on podbiz with norma jean belenki.

Sam Sethi: 57:31

Uh, you're on that show and you said why aren't hosts offering newsletters? Why aren't hosts doing these sort of things? I I'm saying to host, why aren't you providing premium and freemium content through the same rss feed, which is what secure rss is all about. It's why you allowing patreon to take the money or member for, or supporting cast or whatever sub stack hosts should be allowing you to host with them and then say oh, by the way, here's your premium capable and we'll deliver all of that through the same rss feed. So we'll give you your blogs, we'll give you your events, we'll give you your blogs, we'll give you your events. We'll give you your premium content and your freemium content and keep your audience in one place at one time.

Sam Sethi: 58:12

Don't ask them to make a second account on another platform where you have no control as a host. You've lost total control once they go to Patreon. You are no longer controlling your customer and I can't get my head round how hosts are ostrich-like burying the heads. They've missed the boat on video. I genuinely think YouTube's got that one. They've missed the boat on many other things and sadly I think you know, they're going to miss the boat on this one as well. I think Patreon and Memo4 will take the lion's share of the money. By the time the hosts wake up to what Secure RSS can and will deliver, it'll be gone.

James Cridland: 58:51

Well, and there we are. Sam has spoken. Maybe this is a good time to remind you that our sponsor, Buzzsprout, does offer quite a lot of that kind of stuff. Not all of it, but quite a lot of that kind of stuff.

Sam Sethi: 59:04

No, they have all of the components. They have wallets, they have subscriptions, they have all of that, that there, but they're not putting it all together in one way.

James Cridland: 59:14

No, well, I think that's the, that's the thing they're missing. That'll be the thing that obviously needs apps to do and everything else. But yes, totally, totally get that. But if you do want to support us, we don't do supporter only shows. But if you do want to support us, weeklypodnew do supporter-only shows.

Sam Sethi: 59:28

But if you do want to support us, weeklypodnewsnet that would be very nice, and I think you've got a Patreon as well for Pod News Daily. So there you go.

James Cridland: 59:33

Well, yes indeed.

Speaker 2: 59:35

Podcast events on the Pod News.

James Cridland: 59:38

Weekly Review. Well, it's always nice when somebody wins an award for the work that they've done around podcasting, but it's not a podcasting award. So congratulations to Tom Webster, who has won a CMI award, the Content Marketing Institute, and he ended up winning an award for the work that he's done at Sounds Profitable for best data storytelling at the Content Marketing Awards. That's his second award at that event. He first won with Edison Research back in 2019. So congratulations, tom. I think that's a brilliant thing. It's good that you are telling the story of podcasting, so that's definitely a good thing. And there was a nice event recently, the Higher Ed PodCon, which was all about universities who are talking about podcasting and all of that kind of thing. Greg Wasserman, who works for rsscom, was botha founding sponsor and also ended up speaking, and he's recapped the event online, which is worthwhile reading.

James Cridland: 1:00:36

Other events going on Very quickly. The Be here Indie Audio Awards have been launched. They are recognising the contribution of the indie audio community. It's not just podcasting, it's other bits of audio as well. It's run by a UK company called Be here, which is an audiobook producer, and you can enter that until the end of September, and the Signal Awards has extended its entry deadline until August the 1st. I never judge any of these awards because it's so much hard work To find out, aren't I, you are about to find out? Because it makes it's so much hard work and to find out, aren't I, you are about to find out, because it looks like you're one of the judges.

Sam Sethi: 1:01:12

How exciting, yeah yeah, I've never done this before, so it'll be good, yeah judging is always a good thing.

James Cridland: 1:01:17

So, and what I find? I find it's it's both fascinating because you hear some really good stuff, and also very depressing because you hear some really bad stuff. So it's and you're there. Why have you entered this for an award? It's awful, which is always fascinating, but still. But there we are and Podcast Movement 2025 is coming up, which I got through the post earlier on this week. Stop me and claim yours. It's a nice PodNews sticker, but it's not just a PodNews logo. There's something more exciting there to go on with, so that should be fun.

James Cridland: 1:01:55

They've made their keynote speaker announcements. They've actually just put most of the schedule up now. If you have a swap card account with Podcast Movement, you can already see it in there, so that's a good thing. One of the speakers is Gabriel Soto from Edison Research, who will be sharing some new data, and another one of the speakers is Jack Davenport, who's co-founder of Goalhanger, which is the UK's biggest independent podcaster. He will be talking about a lot of exciting things from the UK. What they need is a is a handsome british person to ask him a ton of questions. I'm not going, oh, sorry about that. So, uh. So that should be fun, but oh, they've asked you. Oh well, you know, I mean, maybe we'll. We'll have to wait and see, won't we? But uh, yeah, maybe.

James Cridland: 1:02:42

But something else which is going on at that very event podcast movement is that there is is that they've listed all of the private meeting rooms, which is interesting, so you can actually go and see what the private meeting rooms are and who will be secreting themselves in private meetings. Interestingly, Spotify does not look as if it has a private meeting room yet, but one person that does, or one company that does have a private meeting room is. But one person that does, or one company that does have a private meeting room, is the Podcast Standards Project for the first time. So, instead of meeting in a restaurant, they are going to be meeting in their own private meeting room, which doubtless will be the dullest room that you've ever seen, but at least it'll be quiet. So that'll be good and apparently open meetings for everybody, as well as member meetings as well, and what they've done is they've also published on their blog post a nice picture, which includes you, mr Sethi, wearing a very fancy shirt, from some of the discussions that happened in London at the podcast show. Yeah, sort of sneaking occasionally. Yes, so that was a fine thing.

James Cridland: 1:03:46

The only other one that I will mention is Radio Days Asia, which is on September the 1st to the 3rd in Jakarta in Indonesia. If you're down this way, then why not come along? You get money off Radio Days Asia and indeed, podcast movement, if you want to. You can find out more about how to do that in the Pod News newsletter as well, and their first set of keynote speakers has just been announced Ron Batyong, who's a good man, who's the CEO of Podcast Network Australia, mike Russell from Creator Magic in the UK also does jingles and things. Chitra Prastuti from KBR Media in Indonesia, and some handsome English guy will also be there. So that should all be fun.

Speaker 2: 1:04:26

The Tech Stuff on the Pod News Weekly Review.

James Cridland: 1:04:30

Annie Tech Stuff very quickly. Let's just give a nice mention to Pocket Casts. They now properly support serial shows, so they are sorted correctly in the correct order now, and all of that, and congratulations to Evo Terra, who wrote a blog piece all about that about a year and a half ago, and Pocket Casts have implemented all of that stuff. So many congratulations to them. Many congratulations to you as well, sam, because you are now properly in the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store.

Sam Sethi: 1:04:59

Yeah, painful, painful, yes, but we got there and, as I said last week, the nice thing about it is I don't need approval now for new features that I add because of the way that we built it with a PWA, so yeah, excellent also, by the way, we support the serial. We did that first because we worked well, yes, of course you do.

James Cridland: 1:05:17

You didn't do that first, I do, I do like to do that first. Well, we didn't do it first? We?

Sam Sethi: 1:05:21

did before pocket cars and okay, yes, let me put it that way our favorite time of the week.

Speaker 2: 1:05:27

It it's the Pod News Weekly Review. Inbox.

James Cridland: 1:05:31

Yeah, so many different ways to get in touch with us. There's fan mail, there's super comments, there's boosts or email as well no boosts for the first time ever. No boosts for the first time ever. No fan mail either. So we just need to say thank you to you for listening. Please do get in touch, though, if you'd like to. Weekly at podnewsnet is an email address if you'll find that easier, and thank you to John McDermott, James Burt, to Rocky Thomas, to Rachel Corbett and many others for being our excellent power supporters. We're now on 21,. If you'd like to join those Weeklypodnewsnet. What's happened for you this week?

Sam Sethi: 1:06:05

Sam dot pod news dot net. What's happened for you this week, sam? Well, pulled my hair out, but got the google play store app done and we did a demo of hls, or low latency hls, now working from everything from 320 up to 4k, so that's all good. And we're pushing ahead with some of the plans around hosting, so that's all good.

James Cridland: 1:06:24

Yeah, that's what we've been working on excellent and you're a busy, busy man, taught doing business conversations with all kinds of people. Yes, I know. So I will probably leave you to do those conversations with all kinds of people and I will wrap up, if you like. Thanks, james, and that's it for this week. There you go, all of our podcast stories taken from the Pod News daily newsletter at podnewsnet. You can support this show by streaming sats. Yes, you can. You can give us feedback using the Buzzsprout fan mail link in our show notes. You can send us a super comment or a boost, or you can become a power supporter like the 21 people that already do that at weeklypodnewsnet, and thank you to all of you for that. Our music is from TM Studios, our voice over is Sheila D, our audio is recorded using Clean Feed, we edit with Hindenburg and we're hosted and sponsored by Buzzsprout. Start podcasting, keep podcasting.

Speaker 2: 1:07:13

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Sam Sethi: 1:07:19

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Speaker 2: 1:07:24

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