Speaker 1: 0:00

Well, let's do this. Then Come on in.

Speaker 2: 0:02

Judith, it's Friday, the 11th of October 2024.

Speaker 3: 0:06

The last word in podcasting news. This is the Pod News Weekly Review with James Cridland and Sam Sethi.

Speaker 1: 0:15

Yes, I'm James Cridland, the editor of Pod News here in Ottawa in Canada, and I'm Sam Sethi, the CEO of True Fans, and it's a happy birthday to my beautiful and very understanding wife. Anyone who has to live with me has to be understanding, I think.

Speaker 2: 0:28

No comment In the chapters. Today, YouTube Music now plays podcasts via RSS. Why has Google suspended Podcast Addict again? Why is Google Notebook LM flooding podcast apps with spam? Also, do paywalls work? And why is Apple's market share continuing to fall? Plus, it's Michelle.

Speaker 4: 0:50

Cobb, executive director of the Podcast Academy.

Speaker 5: 0:56

And I'll be on later to talk about the Ambees. It's Sandy and I'll be on later to talk about podcasting, rss and monetization options on YouTube.

Speaker 6: 1:03

I'm Paulo Dias. I am the co-founder and head of industry relations for the South African Podcasters Guild and I'll be talking about the landscape of South African podcasting, what we're up to as a guild, our wins over the past year and how we're growing.

Speaker 2: 1:17

They will. This podcast is sponsored by Buzzsprout, with the tools, support and community. To make sure you keep podcasting, start podcasting, keep podcasting with buzzsproutcom. From your daily newsletter, the Pod News Weekly Review.

Speaker 1: 1:32

Now, Judith, what are you doing in Ottawa?

Speaker 2: 1:34

I am here for a conference, unsurprisingly, but very much enjoying Ottawa. I was last here 20 years ago. Literally nothing has changed. I think one of the Tim Hortons has a new chair, but apart from that, that's about it. No, it's a lovely place. It's very weird. It's sort of Scottish feeling. We're right next to the Parliament Houses of Parliament here and, yeah, it's an interesting old place.

Speaker 1: 2:02

Enjoy while you're there and you're coming to London next, so we'll see you in London, probably next week or so or next couple of weeks. Don't leave me. Todd Cochran, todd Cochran, he celebrates 20 years in podcasting. Well done to Todd. He joins an elite group of people. I couldn't tell you all the rest of them, but there are a few people who've made 20 years in podcasting I'll tell you that and are still alive as well. That would be a double whammy. So he's in the alive 20 years plus group.

Speaker 2: 2:27

Yes him. Adam Curry, Rob Greenlee that's right, todd. Yes, he's all done very well. He did a live show on Wednesday, the Geek News Central show, episode 1772. He's only done that many, so many congratulations.

Speaker 2: 2:45

That's what happens if you do a daily show. So many congratulations, todd. That's a wonderful thing. Now YouTube yes, what about it, james? Last week we spoke to Maya Prohovnik from Spotify. We asked her a bunch of questions. We got a bunch of answers. This week we thought, well, why not ask much the same sorts of questions this week? We thought, well, why not ask much the same sorts of questions to YouTube, the number one podcast app, theoretically. So you ended up catching up with Sandy Wilhelm and you asked her what is a podcast?

Speaker 5: 3:17

Podcasts really offer a unique form of storytelling and what I believe sets them really apart from any other format is the often long form, unscripted nature of that format which really allows for that closer proximity or intimacy between the creators and their audiences. And as a format, podcasts are also evolving. You know, audiences really want to feel closer to their presenters, they want to be able to visualize some of that storytelling, they want to feel like they are in the room with their presenters or with their hosts. And on the creator side, a lot of them are starting to reimagine their work, not just being heard but also how it can be seen On YouTube. Podcasts are integrated in a special way. Rather than just being a piece of audio content, a podcast on YouTube is a playlist and every episode within that podcast is a video within that playlist. And so what that allows to do, that seamless blend between audio and video as a format, allows for audiences to consume that podcast in the way that they want to consume it, whether that being through audio or whether that being through video. And so you know, as I said in the beginning, we've continuously worked on enhancing that podcast experiences for both audiences and creators alike.

Speaker 5: 4:52

For audiences, you know, we've worked on launching destination pages on YouTube Music, on YouTube Main, to allow audiences to have a dedicated listening or visual experience when it comes to their podcasting journeys. We've launched podcast search cards as well, so that when users search for a podcast, they have the ability to discover podcasts as a search result. And we have continuously tried and find ways to allow audiences to have a seamless experience when it comes to their podcasting journeys on the platform. And I should add to that as well is that you know that flexibility in consumption, you know, is also significant because you know users, through those features that we've launched, have the ability to watch a podcast or just to simply listen, depending on where they are, whether that's on the go, in the background, and those experiences also sync up. So you know, you start somewhere on your mobile phone, then you get on the tube, you get on onto your computer, those experiences all sync up and what this allows for audiences is to have, ultimately, a seamless, uninterrupted journey when it comes to their podcasting journeys.

Speaker 5: 6:12

For creators, we've also developed tools and features to simplify the delivery of podcasts to the platform, whether that's through YouTube studios with the uploads of videos, or by integrating as well, rss feeds, and so you know, according to a recent Edison report, youtube is the most frequently used service for podcasting, for listening to podcasts, in the US, but also, importantly, it is one of the most frequent services when it comes to new podcasting, new podcast listeners. So, to start with, a lot of people are starting their journeys on YouTube and as YouTube evolves you know, continues to evolve it is building that multi-format ecosystem where podcasts really complement other types of content that are on YouTube already, whether that being shorts or vlogs or whether that being live stream, and audiences start their journeys in so many different places and through those different formats. So really tapping into that multi-format opportunity really help creators engage with audiences across those different formats and it really helps them strengthening their relationship with viewers, no matter where or how they choose to consume that type of content.

Speaker 1: 7:32

I think what we're also finding from lots of surveys is Gen Z is seriously now a lean back watching type podcaster rather than a lean forward audio podcaster. Is that something that you're finding as well?

Speaker 5: 7:50

yeah, so.

Speaker 5: 7:50

So according, like you said, according to an edison report, the majority of younger audiences prefer to watch podcasts rather than to just listen to them, and I think what this like, like you, what this report really shows us, is that, increasingly, like you are in the room with your presenters is really what allows you know.

Speaker 5: 8:30

So that video element is really what allows for that close proximity that they're so longing to consume when it comes to podcasting, and it really complements the audio piece that is being offered. Now that trend is just less pronounced with older age groups, who are just more accustomed to a more traditional way of consuming audio-only podcasts. And I would argue that, whilst audio-only podcasts remain very popular, the multi-format nature of YouTube is really helping podcasters tap into younger audiences, particularly Gen Z, who prefer video content and also expect multimedia storytelling. And what I think this shift really illustrates is ultimately how podcasting is evolving as a format to not only cater to a diverse set of habits when it comes to consumption audio video on the go, different screens, et cetera but also across the different generations.

Speaker 1: 9:38

Does time of day matter as well?

Speaker 5: 9:41

So YouTube is a multi-format platform and it offers a very robust analytic tool to really understand how users are consuming your content.

Speaker 5: 9:53

So not only how users are consuming your content, but where they started their journey, how did they find that content, who they are, where they are and at what time of day they are consuming that content. And so, ultimately, as you think about a creator's evolution on the platform, there are different steps into that journey, and the first step is obviously about defining that strategy and the objectives that you've set yourself to have for the platform. Then it's about building the audience and deepening the relationship with your audience that are really interested in consuming that content. But then an essential part of that journey is about looking at data to understand where and how and when your users are consuming that content, so that you can reiterate along the way and really evolve with your audience to provide them with the satisfaction of what it is they are looking to find onto your platform. So using data is that essential part of that journey which ultimately will help you as well evolve further with your strategy on the platform.

Speaker 1: 11:05

Okay, I want to start a podcast on YouTube. Do I have to have video? Can I just do audio only?

Speaker 5: 11:12

I think a lot of people think of this as, or approach this thinking, as binary. It's or audio or it's video, and whilst video can really enhance the podcasting experience, it doesn't necessarily mean that every podcast must be full video to succeed on the platform. You know, youtube really offers that wide range of possibilities for creators to combine audio and visual content in ways that just works best for them, and so what that means is that podcasts can really exist across a whole spectrum. So some podcasters, you know, upload full length episodes as audio, with a static image as an example, but include special behind the seams as companion pieces to their audio piece of content. Other audio first podcasts just use or create shorts which have segments that are the most popular clips of that longer form of content, and what they're trying to do is really reach audiences wherever they are. So ultimately, what that means is that your podcast actually doesn't necessarily need to be on video to have a home on YouTube and to be successful on YouTube.

Speaker 1: 12:33

How important is RSS to YouTube?

Speaker 5: 12:36

Yeah.

Speaker 5: 12:39

So RSS is very important and I think it's a tool that simplifies delivery of content to the platform.

Speaker 5: 12:47

Now, it is a very convenient option for many podcasters, but the decision to incorporate video really depends on the type of engagement that podcasters are seeking with their audiences.

Speaker 5: 13:01

And so, when you think that audiences start their journeys in different places, it is about those different formats really serving different purposes, and video really offers an opportunity to build a deeper connection with listeners who want to feel more connected to their podcast hosts. And we've seen that video element, that visual piece, is really allowing for that close proximity, for that feeling of belonging, of being closer to their presenters. And so what we also see is that many podcasters already today are integrating video elements within their show, whether, like we said, through full episodes or by producing short clips, or behind the scenes, et cetera. And so adding those visually engaging pieces of content really adds new layers to the storytelling experience that a lot of younger audiences are looking for it. And so, when, when and if they feel it is right for their audiences, podcasters can decide to use some of that and leverage YouTube's reach and exposure and really exponentially expose or bring more fan bases to tap into the content that they are consuming and make sure that it almost feeds the appetite of audiences in terms of multi-format consumption.

Speaker 1: 14:34

So that's RSS into YouTube. Now I'm old and I remember the early days of YouTube and the URL used to be will YouTube ever? Let me take RSS out of YouTube.

Speaker 5: 14:49

Well, there's a lot of product features that we are working on and we'll certainly, you know, be able to update you as as those goes along. So at the moment, you know, our product teams are continuously working on not only enhancing the consumption experience for audiences, but also, ultimately, to ensure that creators' experience on YouTube becomes better and better. What will happen in the future, I don't know yet, but I will make sure to update you as soon as possible, as soon as I have answers to that.

Speaker 1: 15:24

As a user of YouTube, I have, strangely, two choices. I have YouTube, the main platform, and I have YouTube music. As a user, I'm confused why two and not one, and where should I go first?

Speaker 5: 15:45

Yeah, so I think there is no choice to make in terms of where you want to go first.

Speaker 5: 15:50

Users' journeys nowadays originate in many different places, whether that is through YouTube Music, through YouTube Main, through YouTube Shorts Feet Lots of people's journeys originate in those many different places and, ultimately, what we've tried to do with our features and tools that we've developed with podcasting is really to enable users to have a seamless experience wherever they start, wherever they decide to consume the content they wish, and, whether that is, you know, audio or video, enabling audio or video on the go in the background.

Speaker 5: 16:29

It is about enabling those multiple consumption patterns. Wherever you are across those different places or entry points. We want to continuously work on providing audiences with a seamless, uninterrupted journeys, and this is what we've done with the tools that we've launched and enabling those multiple consumption pattern. And, importantly as well as part of that is, you know, experiences will sync up. Whether you start on YouTube Music and then you continue on YouTube Main, the aim again is for you to pick up where you left off, whether that's, you know, starting point was on YouTube Music and then continue it there. But ultimately, the end goal is to ensure that audiences have a good experience when it comes to their podcasting journeys on the platform, wherever they are.

Speaker 1: 17:31

Okay, I promised the final question then what opportunities exist now for me as a podcaster, to make money on YouTube? How can I best optimize my revenue return with YouTube?

Speaker 5: 17:49

with YouTube. Yeah, so once a channel is enabled for monetization, podcasters can access the same monetization options that are available to any creator on YouTube. And given that podcasts are typically long form content, they naturally provide more opportunities for monetization with mid-roll ads. So YouTube really offers creators those multiple revenue streams. There is the traditional ad revenue piece, with ads being served against the content, but also there is the option to generate revenue through channel memberships or super chats or merchandise integration with YouTube shopping, and what these tools really allows is to, you know, generate revenue, sustain what the content offering that you provide, but also scale those operations further. And then, importantly to mention is that you know, additionally, podcasts on YouTube can also include various forms of advertising, such as host read, endorsement or sponsorship messages of advertising, such as host read, endorsement or sponsorship messages, and those really further enhance as well the monetization potential of that of those podcasts on the platform sandy wilhelm, thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 1: 18:57

I won't say where would you go to find out more information, because I think the world knows youtubecom. That's fairly simple, but thank you so much for taking the time out thank you very much.

Speaker 5: 19:07

I really appreciate you talking to us so there you go, sandy wilhelm.

Speaker 1: 19:12

Thank you very much, sandy, for taking the time out. And now, james, you've been playing with some of your youtube uh, basically tools that you built last year, but you've updated them. What have you been doing?

Speaker 2: 19:24

well. So this is actually something that youtube music has, um, done. It's a tiny little change, but if you are a podcast hosting company, listen up, because this is perfect for you. It used to be that there was a way of YouTube Music, which is obviously a music audio app which is pre-installed on all Android phones, so it's a pretty big deal. There used to be a way for you to go in there manually and copy and paste an RSS feed and then it will play podcasts via RSS, and that's lovely, but a little bit complicated, but still lovely.

Speaker 2: 19:58

What they've now done is they've now added a programmatic link which allows anyone to link to an RSS feed within YouTube Music. So it's being used, obviously, by the people that moved from Google Podcasts over onto YouTube Music so that they can still listen to all of their favourites. But that also means that if you're a podcast hosting company, you can now link directly to a page on YouTube Music that allows somebody to listen to that particular show on YouTube Music, which is a pretty big deal, so I've written a piece about that. If you search the Pod News website for a podcast, then you'll find a link that goes directly to this feature, and also there's a website that I put together last year which was supposed to make this easier, which is now much easier RSS to YTM. Rss number two, ytmnet, and that also has been updated as well. So if you are a podcast host maybe you are, you know, maybe you are linking to Apple and to Spotify and to other places. You can also automatically link to YouTube Music, which is a nice thing too.

Speaker 1: 21:13

So Sandy couldn't answer this question. James, maybe you can. Why would YouTube have YouTube Music and YouTube? It's very googly, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 21:22

to have multiple examples of the same product googly isn't it to have multiple examples of the same product? I think that YouTube Music, although development on it has slowed in the last year, I think that YouTube Music is a very specific product which is there as a music product. It's there. It understands how music works. The navigation is all around music. Youtube itself doesn't work that way. Now could you argue that music lives in the main YouTube app? Yes, probably, but I think having a different app which allows you to do things like being able to play RSS feeds and being able to, you know, download music on a separate basis and all of that kind of stuff, kind of makes a little bit of sense from a point of view of how it all works. But yes, I mean, there's probably no reason why you couldn't have mashed the two together in some way. I think YouTube's complicated enough to be honest without doing that. But who knows? Well, if they want to take on Spotify.

Speaker 1: 22:27

I suggest having one app instead of two, and splitting the audience might be the most smartest thing to do, wouldn't it?

Speaker 2: 22:32

Yeah, I mean you could say that. I mean, what's weird is if you are a YouTube music subscriber, as I am, it's my favoured music service then actually you can play all of the songs and things in YouTube main as well. You know, if you're on, you know your desktop browser, then actually the links work into the main YouTube as well as YouTube music. So it's all a little bit complicated, but I do think that there is a good UX reason for having a different experience for music. Obviously, spotify have come out of this being an audio app being a music app and they've kind of cobbled in video into that app and it's not a great experience.

Speaker 2: 23:22

I think YouTube has come at this in a different way and I think it's probably fine having two individual apps. I'm a bit sad I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for, but I'm a bit sad that YouTube Music seems to have stagnated in terms of new development over the last six months or so. You know, I mean it's fine, it's a good experience, it's got a good algorithm, but you know, there doesn't appear to be an awful lot of additional work going on in there. And as a podcast app it's fine. It's not brilliant, but it's fine, and it's got certain things that you would expect. You know, variable speed, playback and all of that kind of stuff. So yeah, but it's just interesting seeing as you say that they've got two separate apps for that.

Speaker 1: 24:04

Open up another graveyard place. I feel like another product's coming in Google, oh.

Speaker 2: 24:11

Who knows?

Speaker 1: 24:11

Right, talking of Google, they are spamming the podcast community. James, tell me more.

Speaker 2: 24:17

Well, yes, they aren't, but people using their new Notebook LM tool seem to be posting an awful lot of fake podcasts into the podcast directories.

Speaker 2: 24:29

So Wenbin Fang, who is the big boss of the Listen Notes directory, for example, he has begun getting very angry that there are so many of these AI-generated shows in his directory and he's now built a thing called the Notebook LM detector to spot shows made by Google's Notebook LM and basically get rid of them from his list. So he's found 280 shows already which is quite a lot, to be fair which have been generated by Google LM and yeah, and he's ended up getting rid of those. So, yeah, it's an interesting question. Now you can have a look at a proposal for a podcasting 2.0 tag around AI disclosure. The problem is, I think, is that the very people who we would want to disclose that they're using AI are going to be the spammers and the people who are trying to make a little bit of money off the side and they're not going to be marking the fact that these shows are fake. You know AI generated things, so you know I wonder how useful that's going to be. I saw that proposal.

Speaker 1: 25:46

I thought it was a little bit overly complex. Unfortunately, I think stating what application AI application you've used to create the podcast with, I don't think is necessary. I think people are just wanting to have. If it's an AI host voice, then tag it, and I think it's as simple as that. Hmm.

Speaker 2: 26:08

Yeah, I think it's a little bit more nuanced than just there's a voice that uses AI in the app, because I think that actually you know if AI has generated a script that you're just reading, then that's important to know as well. If AI has been used to generate certain things, what?

Speaker 1: 26:28

you mean like this script that we use.

Speaker 2: 26:31

This script is not AI generated, it's Sam generated. So yeah, but you know, I mean, I think it needs to be slightly more nuanced than just is there an AI voice in here? But I would certainly agree that at the end of the day, look, the very people that we want to say that they're using AI won't say anyway, and so it's kind of well, what's the way ahead? I'm not sure.

Speaker 1: 27:01

Well, look, you could have had that same argument about the explicit tag. Right, no one's going to mark their podcast as explicit, everyone's just going to let it go through. But people do, and they do, uh, regularly.

Speaker 1: 27:13

I think stuff gets through the net, you know and I think that's where the wisdom of the crowd can come back and help you. So you know, in true, true fans fashion, we've already implemented ai as a host within the podcast taxonomy. The flag now says report as ai we will check that and you have a user switch, like the explicit switch, which you just turn on and then anything that's been tagged host equals ai. You just don't hear it. That's it.

Speaker 2: 27:41

Yeah, very simple yeah, no, it's, it's um. Well, maybe that's's where the future goes. I mean, obviously, being at a media conference. All the talk is about AI in this particular conference that I'm at here, so I'm imagining that there's going to be more of that AI conversation to come.

Speaker 1: 28:01

Moving on, James N, do paywalls work? It seems for some they do.

Speaker 2: 28:06

The Economist claimsist has retained 80% of its listeners after putting all of its podcasts behind a paywall and apparently they hit 30,000 paid subscribers in six months. Do you think that's true? Nope, I simply cannot. What was interesting? So I linked to this a couple of days ago in the Pod News newsletter at podnewsnet, and I had a number of people sending me messages going do you actually believe that story? I was, hence why there's a lot of use of the word claim, Hence why there's a lot of use of the word claim in the story that I wrote. I just can't see. I mean, maybe the Economist is a very special case and they're all very rich bankers who get this and it doesn't matter, and maybe they're all subscribed to the Economist anyway. I don't know. But I can't see any company putting podcasts behind a paywall and then turning around and saying oh you know, we only lost 20% of our audience. I find that very, very hard to comprehend. It has to be said.

Speaker 1: 29:38

The FT did something similar, didn't they, in the sense of putting the content behind paywalls, and that seemed to retain a high readership content behind paywalls and that seemed to retain a high readership.

Speaker 2: 29:55

Yeah Well, maybe that's part of it and maybe it's just this particular market segment that actually, you know, money isn't a particular issue, but I find it. You know, I mean the people who I have spoken to have said, I mean, they know quite a lot of people inside the Economist and they have said that this is not really what they are hearing inside. The organisation really know, and I wonder whether or not 80% of its listeners is a bit of a fudge in terms of whether or not he's double counting, whether or not if you're a listener to podcast X and podcast Y, then you're two listeners, not one, or however this works. But I just look at it and I go there's something that just doesn't feel quite right about that. If you know more information, obviously then do get in touch. Update to podnewsnet. That would be lovely, but I just don't quite get it, to be honest.

Speaker 1: 30:57

Let's whiz around the world. James. Spain's our first port of call. One in three Spotify users are listening to podcasts. That sounds good.

Speaker 2: 31:06

It does sound very good. That's new data from the company shared at a recent Madrid event called Next In Podcast, a Spotify-branded event. Nine out of ten users of video podcasts watch them. In the foreground says the data, which I again find surprising, but still, but there we are. Find surprising, but but still, but there we are. Uh, spain is clearly having um having a go of it because um, there's also been uh news from audible as well, um coming out of spain showing some good numbers, uh for audible too, in terms of podcasts okay, off to holland.

Speaker 1: 31:42

What's been?

Speaker 2: 31:43

happening there off to the netherlands? Uh, holland is just a part of the Netherlands, sam, I think you'll find the audio agency. Airborne, who may be based in Holland, I don't know have announced its independence. It was previously a division of Ace, which is a creative agency. Interesting seeing a company that essentially makes branded podcasts plough its own furrow and get out from under the thumb of a big creative agency, so that's interesting to end up seeing. Also, a subscription podcast company in Denmark, podimo, has acquired PodAds, which is a big podcast agency and an advertising platform. I found this quite interesting because what it particularly says, I think, is that Podimo, which is a subscription podcast company so you pay money to go and listen to a show of your choice on that platform all of a sudden is now looking at a hybrid model that includes advertising, because why else would they have bought an advertising agency and an advertising platform? So wonder how the subscription model is going for the Potimo folks. I should find out in a week or so, because I will be over there, won't I?

Speaker 1: 33:01

We will, actually we will. We will Indeed. Yes, wow, those Nordics do like buying stuff, don't they?

Speaker 2: 33:10

They do, they do. They're very rich. It's all the oil. That's what it is. Oil, yes.

Speaker 1: 33:14

That wealth fund Back here in the UK. The Rest is Politics Live drew nearly 4,000 attendees to a live show in Brighton. It's a political podcast, so that's quite a large number. And they're off to Birmingham next. And the news agents? Who is their competitor, I suppose? Just sold out the Albert Hall, which is 5,272 people.

Speaker 2: 33:40

I thought I'd look it up and see how many they can squeeze in. Yes, yes, I mean doing some. You know live podcasts are doing some incredible numbers. I mean the Acquired. If you remember, that was in San Francisco not so long back and they had around 6,000 people. It's very clearly a new thing. I mean why you would turn up, as the folks did in Brighton, to watch two men talk on a stage for an hour.

Speaker 1: 34:05

I don't really know Should we try that Three people and a dog turn up talk on a stage for an hour.

Speaker 2: 34:07

I don't really know. I did notice that there was a photo Three people and a dog turn up. I did notice. Oh, I don't know, we've done pretty well in when we've done this show live on a stage in the past. But yeah, I think it's. You know, you can certainly see that there is an opportunity here for the big shows and I think it needs to be a big show. But, yes, some really nice pictures. If you want to see the power of podcasting, then some really nice pictures that you'll see in the Pod News newsletter over the last couple of days.

Speaker 1: 34:43

Let's whiz on to South Africa, james. I caught up with a lovely guy called Paolo Diaz. I met him at the London Podcast Show and I promised that we would have a chat when he got back to South Africa. He heads up the South African Podcasters Guild, which has about 300 members, and I asked him what is the South African Podcast Guild?

Speaker 6: 35:04

So it's probably an idea whose time had come and has got so much goodwill behind its momentum. But basically it started out as me speaking to a lot of independent podcasters primarily guys and girls, who were creating podcasts by themselves and looking for a community, and I would host events in the two main cities in South Africa and everybody that was coming to them we said we should formalize this, we should make something, we should be something. And having a lot of those conversations time and time again kind of forced us into go okay, let's do it. And it was meant to be no bigger than a beer and pizza organization but just, I think the groundswell and momentum beyond podcasting in South Africa made it so much bigger into what it is. And I think we had laid out like a 18-month to two-year roadmap and we've kind of like achieved that in 10 months.

Speaker 6: 35:54

We're celebrating our anniversary the first week of November, our one-year anniversary, and we've grown from a zero base to 300 members and it's the biggest collective of South African podcasters in the country and there are all sorts of shows in there, high quality shows catering for all different audiences, and what we try to do as SA Podcaster Guild is we know the quality is good, but the exposure is not there, and if people got this exposure, the shows would grow. And I think that's what we spend a lot of time on doing making sure that we're getting our shows in front of people, whether it's through partnerships with big media owners, whether it's through collaborations with charities, whether it's just sharing with each other, giving people a network to do promo swaps and cross promote shows and making each other aware of their shows, and that's really what we've been spending the past 10, 11 months doing.

Speaker 1: 36:41

Nice. I like it. So what does it cost to join the guild? Is it free or is there a membership?

Speaker 6: 36:53

There is a paid tier, but we are a free to join organization, so we open up. We don't expect anybody to pay anything. The paid membership is really a tiny, tiny fee. I think that's a hundred Rand in South Africa, which is barely 10 pounds. So it's a really, really tiny fee to join. And we did that because we just want to make it accessible. As much as we have podcasters from like all realms and all walks of life. We don't want to close it or ring fence it to anybody. So at the moment it is free. You know, anybody paying the guys paying are paying, kind of just to help keep us running. But yeah, we wanted to make it as broadly accessible to anyone as possible. Do you get industry?

Speaker 1: 37:25

industry support. Do people from the bigger companies sponsor this at the Guild?

Speaker 6: 37:29

We're looking at that and formalizing that and we have had approaches from big players in the industry and we are working with them to figure out what that means, because it's a great way to grow it en masse and so far what they have been doing is paying us in kind.

Speaker 6: 37:43

They've got big audiences, they've got big platforms, they've got big social media followings and a lot of them have come to the party to offer.

Speaker 6: 37:50

So we are currently in a program with a local, a company called IOLcoza, that run a number of newspapers and their subsequent digital publications, who've just absorbed a bunch of our shows into their publications, so promoting us to their readers and followers, which is again putting it in front of people. We're speaking to a couple of radio station groups to say, okay, what can you give us? Can you adopt a podcast? Can you give us resources? So, even without the cash changing hands just yet, we are speaking to bigger players to go, okay, well, you know this works for everyone because you know, for big media businesses they get podcasting and they understand the audience wants it, but it is kind of costly to produce and it's a little bit of a that takes focus on their away from their core, where suddenly you're able to access two to 300 very fresh shows that are being produced every week at a high quality. It's appealing for both sides to suddenly be able to make an offering without really that massive startup capital that you do need to go full on into podcasting.

Speaker 1: 38:48

So, given that you said you're ahead of your plan, what is the plan Now? You're approaching your first year. What next?

Speaker 6: 38:56

Yeah, what next? I think where we are right now is that we're very aware that the volunteer run part of it is not sustainable. We're getting a lot of members, they're asking a lot of us not in a demanding way, but I mean, obviously they see us as a resource and they see what we're able to do as a resource and we're at that friction point that if we're not able to kind of like, keep you know up to what we've promised people we will do, we're going to just fade into the background. So we are in that phase of going okay, we do need a little bit more support, we do probably need full-time staff and we are looking at ways to do that.

Speaker 6: 39:32

But in terms of like growing, it's like just this constant validity that we're after, I think, if we can get our members into being paid by some of the platforms we're with, not just like a trade exchange. You know, exposure is all fine and well, but it doesn't pay the bills. So it's about going okay, cool, we're showing you the validity of it. Now take some of these people on, monetize them by all means, sell their product but also pay their money. So I think that's where we want to go next.

Speaker 6: 39:57

But then there's also the charity side and I think that makes people very interested. It gets good PR miles but also does good and it gives back, and I think a lot of our members are in that space to contribute and use their shows for good, which is quite nice to see, because I think South African podcasting and most podcasting was built off the back of controversy and rightly so controversial hosts because they were challenging mainstream. But definitely the new phase of podcasting we're in in terms of creators is all about giving back and doing things for their audience and really understanding that, and so you definitely any charity initiatives we do take to our members really catches fire and I think that's really something to grow on going forward.

Speaker 1: 40:35

So is the guild your full-time role, or do you do other?

Speaker 6: 40:37

things. No. So my full-time role is I work for a company called Ultimate Media and I'm head of innovation there, of which doing podcasts for brands is part of what I do. But in general, what we are is we're kind of like an independent consultancy that works on behalf of clients and how best to get return on investment for their ad campaigns. So, whether it be from generic advertising or radio promotions or presenter endorsements, we work on behalf of the clients and then work through all the radio stations so make it really easy for them to navigate that space, instead of dealing with multiple sales houses and then also making sure there's consistency and making sure their message comes first and foremost, but in an integrated way. You know, I think we all are very strong programming people. We understand what makes good programming and then we just try to tie the two together, and then, of course, as we get into streaming and podcasting, et cetera, it's just the next natural evolution.

Speaker 1: 41:32

With South Africa. Where do you see the next couple of years really? What is the plan? Is it going to be we're going to follow the American model and we're going to try and get you know big brand names and exclusives, and that's the way to go. Or is it we're going to follow the Middle Eastern market, where we're seeing some really good companies getting high levels of investment, or the India market, which has gone to number three now in the world in terms of consumption? Where do you sort of feel? And the last question in that is is it also all English language? Because obviously South Africa's got a rich history of multi-language as well?

Speaker 6: 42:11

Yeah, I think the answer about where we go next is probably a little bit in between all of those, and I always lean back on my radio experience and going, like we looked at what was working in markets similar to ours and then created our own version of that. I think you know, you and I met in London at the podcast show in London and there was definitely a theme there of podcasting coming out of a bit of a dip, a bit of a bad space, and you really developed markets and my eyes were totally open to it, of going like wow, we are copying that and we're walking into the same trap. And I think it was amazing to go, because then you go okay, we're not too far down the road to kind, of course, correct. So I think we'll be remiss to copy any bigger markets because the numbers there kind of make it just a bit too big to fail. If you know what I mean, it's not that it's guaranteed, but you're just dealing with a lot of wiggle room which I don't think we have here.

Speaker 1: 43:08

Cost must be a prohibitor in South Africa for a lot of the young. You talked about it being a very young continent, not just South Africa but the whole of the African nation. And is there a way for young voices to come to studios and to get involved with podcasting, even if they can't afford a mic and they can't afford a producer and they can't afford a video camera and in the most positive way, right it's.

Speaker 6: 43:35

I think the context of calling someone a hustler locally is like a it's a badge of honor actually, how these kids, they got a message and they will figure out how to get it to you. So, so many of them. I see the high quality video coming out of them and you're like where you record oh, that's my friend's house. You're like, wow, okay, you got something. So they're figuring out how to get stuff out there. You're not seeing like what I've anticipated, kind of like you know really cell phone type videos and things like that. People are in studios with good cameras and good editing, so they are figuring it out. But there's also like a lot of initiatives. So out in the Joburg kind of like artistic district, there's a studio called Amped Studios which is backed by one of the big cell phone companies and they're actually giving studio time for free to people. You just basically have to sign up, become a member, no payment, and whether you want to shoot video, audio, whatever it's co-working spaces plus free studio time.

Speaker 6: 44:28

I don't know if they edit fully. I think they give you the final product, but to do that, that's just amazing. It's just really really good stuff and a lot of people support each other. They help each other. Somebody's got a camera, somebody knows a friend with a mic, somebody's got a studio space and they just work it out. So, yeah, it is inhibitor, and I mean by no means that anybody can just jump in, but the guys who want to figure it out, we'll figure it out, and the help is usually never far away for people. So you know, the help is always on hand with really good quality.

Speaker 1: 44:57

Paolo, if I wanted to join the guild, where would I go?

Speaker 6: 45:07

So sapgcoza and just sign up. You know, we just ask for your show. Your show doesn't even have to be running all the time, it can be of interest. You may be just joining us to figure out if you want to start a show, and that's also fine and your choice. If we add you to our WhatsApp communities, which are quite thriving, and you'll get newsletters, you'll get access to our social media. You'll get access to us and our events and our awards. So it's just as simple as sapgcoza.

Speaker 6: 45:29

We focus mostly on South Africans. I think that was one of the conversations. The guys from African Podcast and Voice Over Association. They were fantastic in helping us getting started and we learned a lot of lessons from them. But then we made the decision to you know what, for the first year at least, focus hard on South Africa, because they do such good work for the rest of Africa. So we're like let us get ourselves right. So we do focus on South Africa because I think we've got a specific set of challenges and a specific set of also wins that we can all go through together. So we do focus, but it's sapgcoza.

Speaker 1: 46:01

Paolo, thank you so much.

Speaker 6: 46:02

Thank you very much, Sam. People News on the Pod News Weekly Review.

Speaker 2: 46:07

Right, let's do very quickly some people and jobs news. How would you like to go and work at Buzzsprout? Possibly not right now, given that they're based in Florida, and Florida seems to be a bit wet and a bit windy as we record this. The world's understatement.

Speaker 2: 46:24

Michael Fish, it might be windy tonight, ladies and gentlemen, yes, yes, I do hope that everybody is well in that part of the world, but Buzzsprout, our sponsor, are looking for a YouTube video creator. So if you fit the bill, you think you can keep podcasting, but in video form. Then you'll find a link to that on the Pod News Jobs website. Also, there is a job going for the Journal, which is their the Daily equivalent, a news producer for that particular podcast. $95,000, apparently, is what you get paid, which seems, does that seem?

Speaker 1: 47:04

high or low From working from home as well. Yeah, Spotify pay very well, it seems. Yeah, you can get $95,000 and work from home. What are we doing, James? Let's give up. I'll apply first, you go second. Let's see what happens.

Speaker 2: 47:15

Yeah, what are we doing. What are we doing, and a ton of people news as well. Uh, firstly, ariel nissenblatt. Uh, the internet's ariel nissenblatt. She has left squadcast and descript. She'd been with them for over, uh, four years. She's still got her irons in lots of other fires, but if you're wanting someone who is, um, incredibly enthusiastic about everything that she does, then she will be a good hire for you. Also, there's a new head of business development at Podcast, one moving from Lebsyn Ads, jim Lally, another one moving away from that company. Not quite sure what's going on there. Also, adresults Media has a new chief operating officer and a bunch of other things too. You'll find all of the people news in the PodNews newsletter and, of course, if you've got a job, podnewsnet slash jobs. Podcast events on the PodNews Weekly Review.

Speaker 2: 48:13

Yes, so a few events going on. I am looking forward to being at the Independent Podcast Awards in a couple of weeks. This show has been nominated, sam, I know. I mean, obviously a nomination is a win, obviously, unless we actually get a win in which case a nomination is a lose.

Speaker 1: 48:31

Do I have to say five words? If I do, no, that's the webbies, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 48:34

That's the webbies. Have I ever Still been the same?

Speaker 1: 48:36

five words Thank. If I do Now, that's the Webby's, isn't it? That's the Webby's. Have I ever? It's still been the same five words.

Speaker 2: 48:39

Thank you very much, James Cridley. Have I ever mentioned that I've won two Webby's?

Speaker 1: 48:42

Never heard you say it. No, no.

Speaker 2: 48:44

There's a podcast festival going on in Ostend in Belgium. Very good for the beer. The DS Podcast Festival is returning for its third year in early November, but they are clearly wanting to expand because they have an English website as well as a website in Flemish, and this year's guests include Avery Truffleman, josh Baker, kim Barker and Michael Safi Worthwhile taking a peek at that and the Ambys Sam. What's going on there?

Speaker 1: 49:10

Well, the Ambys have opened their doors for submissions. You've got until November the 22nd. It costs $200 to members to enter and $250 for non-members. But I thought we should reach out to Michelle Cobb, who is the president of the Podcast Academy, and ask her what are the AMBIs?

Speaker 4: 49:30

Well, the AMBIs are the Awards for Excellence in Audio, so, of course, podcasts are what take front and center stage at the Ambees, and we have a number of categories and we are currently in the submission process so you can submit to have your show potentially be a nominee or even a winner of the Ambees.

Speaker 1: 49:55

Now I've rudely on multiple occasions called them the American Podcast Awards but they're not.

Speaker 4: 50:03

No, they're not.

Speaker 1: 50:03

No, I know, but every time I've gone to Podcast Movement I've gone where is the rest of the world? So how do we get the rest of the world to submit? I know you've just opened it up for the Spanish market.

Speaker 4: 50:16

Correct. So now there is a Spanish language Ambie, just one to start see how it goes. But yeah, we actually have plenty of submissions from Canada, australia, the UK and really, although we're currently most of the categories in English with just the one in Spanish, you know our long-term plans are to expand that. But we have to have participation and you know we are an academy, so that means the people who select the winners of the AMBIs are members. So I encourage everyone, if you're going to submit to the AMBIs, join. It's very inexpensive $100 a year and then you'll get a discount on your submissions and you'll get first invite to the Ambi's in person so you can participate. Also, you can judge. We're an academy like the Motion Picture or the Music Academy, so it is the members that do the judging of the Ambi's themselves.

Speaker 1: 51:15

Okay, let's get a couple of other things. So submissions have opened. When do submissions close?

Speaker 4: 51:21

November 22nd, so get going. I know everyone likes to submit in the last week, but get going.

Speaker 1: 51:29

Okay, and when I submit, what do I do? I mean, how long should be a submission, and you know? Are there any tips and hints as to what's a good submission and a bad submission?

Speaker 4: 51:40

Yes, well, you are submitting a single episode. So there's a couple of things that we recommend. First of all, if it's a fiction podcast that has a plot that you kind of need to know the beginning, you can submit the first episode in the series to give people footing. You can submit the first episode in the series to give people footing. Regardless of the episode that you submit, it should be engaging, because that is what is being judged. So make sure that you're putting your best foot forward and it is something that really grabs people at the start and makes them want to listen. The hosting is good, the tech is good All of that is really strong, because our judges are going to be listening to literally hundreds of podcasts. So yours wants to stand out and you want to really make sure that, whatever episode you submit, you're truly, truly proud of.

Speaker 1: 52:33

Okay, and when are the Ambees themselves and where are the Amby's themselves?

Speaker 4: 52:38

They're going to be in Chicago on March 31st of 2025. And it gives me pause to say 2025, but that's what we're headed towards. So we will be in conjunction with Podcast Movement. We're kind of that opening night event of the show itself and we encourage everyone to come in person and, if you're not coming to Chicago, to stream online.

Speaker 1: 53:03

Now, you talked about this being an audio podcasting awards, but we have the rise of YouTube right now and video podcasting is certainly on the rise. Certainly, it's something that the younger audience is very attracted to. Are you going to extend the ambis to include video podcasting?

Speaker 4: 53:23

Currently, we're asking you to submit an audio, so your podcast can have a video, but we're asking you to submit the audio file so that we can hear it. That's what our focus is on at the moment.

Speaker 1: 53:34

Okay, and last question how can we extend this really beyond the borders? I mean, I know that you've got academy members now in the UK, the Middle East, you've got them sprinkled around the world.

Speaker 1: 53:49

But what can we do then to make this more of a global submission? Because it feels and I'm not trying to be rude here, I'm just trying to be observant as to what I see. You know. Actually, to be fair to you, the first year of the Amby's that were in LA, a couple of my friends from the UK actually won the award. So Jay Setty no relation to me won the award and a few other people. But the last two years that I've been to the Ambees there's been a very American leaning that how can we bring that back from me? Stop calling them the American Podcast Awards to the Ambees, which are more of a global Definitely.

Speaker 4: 54:33

Well, first, let's remember that 20% of our membership is outside the US, so we have plenty of people involved that are from outside the US, and it's really reminding people that anyone can submit. You can be making a podcast in your basement, that's amazing. You can be working at a big company. So it's really designed to be encouraging submissions from all walks of life globally, and I think it's just reminding people that we encourage those submissions regardless of where you are, and our goal is to continue to expand outside the English language. But in order to do that, we've got to get support. So that means joining, participating and submitting.

Speaker 1: 55:16

Remind me, is it free to submit or is there a cost involved?

Speaker 4: 55:36

There is a cost to submit, or is there? And I know a lot of times we stop ourselves from submitting because we're not sure that we measure up. But if you don't put yourself out there you're never going to know. And we really you know. Look at last year's big winner, ronald Young Jr won three Ambies like amazing, and he's very much an independent podcaster and doing many, many things. Now I see his name everywhere, which is really cool.

Speaker 1: 56:04

Right, michelle. Remind us then one more time. Where do I go to submit?

Speaker 4: 56:09

Ambyscom, theambyscom Either one will get you there, do I encourage you to go to the Podcast Academy and join as well, so you get that discount. But don't be shy and if you have any questions, you know you can email info at thepodcastacademycom and get help. We're here to support you.

Speaker 1: 56:28

Excellent. I look forward to seeing the winners in Chicago.

Speaker 4: 56:32

Yes, it'll be fun, and we're just in the process of figuring out and thinking about who we want to host the awards, so that's always a fun process. Last year was Trixie Mattel, so lots of, lots of fun, and Larry Wilmore and we were in Vegas, so it's always a treat to go through the process of working on the show with the host.

Speaker 1: 56:52

Can we get Ricky Gervais?

Speaker 4: 56:54

I don't know. I would love that we don't have that kind of money, I'm sure.

Speaker 1: 56:59

But he's my neighbor. I'll go and knock on his door and see what he says.

Speaker 4: 57:02

Please do, please do.

Speaker 1: 57:05

Michelle Cobb. Thank you so much. Speak to you soon, Sounds good.

Speaker 2: 57:08

The excellent Michelle Cobb from the Ambies and I always just you know point this out. If it costs $200 for members and $250 for non-members, it normally ends up being frankly cheaper for you just to sign up as a member and then you get all of the other benefits on there as well, so worth taking a peek. Theambiscom so. It was the British Podcast Awards recently and lots of winners there, not us.

Speaker 2: 57:36

Not us, no, but there again we didn't enter. So if you don't enter, you're not going to win. Not us, no, but there again we didn't enter. That's true. So if you don't enter, you're not going to win. But one of the things that Brett Spencer did from City University last year is he got all of the or a lot of the gold winners all together to talk about how to make a gold winning podcast, and he's doing it again this year. It's a free event. It's on Monday, the 18th of November. It's at City University, which is right in the middle of London. It's got a decent pub next to it. It should be a good thing. Already speaking are people like Victoria Derbyshire and Mark Sandell from the BBC, also Jane Gerber and Jack Housen as well, and a bunch of other folk as well. So if you are in the UK and you fancy seeing some award winners, then you should pop along to that. It is free and there's a link on the Pod News website.

Speaker 1: 58:35

Yeah, that's Monday, the 18th of November, from 6 till 9 o'clock the. Tech Stuff on the Pod News Weekly Review.

Speaker 2: 58:43

Yes, it's the stuff you'll find every Monday in the Pod News newsletter. Here's where Sam talks technology. Buzzpro have launched a new thing, haven't they?

Speaker 1: 58:51

Yeah, dynamic content for mid-rolls. I'm excited a little bit because you know it's another new way of making monetisation. I'm still not convinced about mid-rolls but hey, happy to try.

Speaker 2: 59:05

Yes, this podcast occasionally does have ads in the middle of it that you will have noticed, and I think one of the nice things around this is that this allows me, as the producer, to basically say if there's going to be an ad in this show, please put it here, rather than Buzzsprout just making it up.

Speaker 1: 59:24

That's much better. I like that.

Speaker 2: 59:27

And so that is essentially what this does. I have submitted a feature request, which is that if I put a chapter into the MP3 file which is called mid-roll, then please could you just take that as a hint that I would like that mid-roll to be in there and of course I haven't had a response, but you have.

Speaker 1: 59:45

There's no response.

Speaker 2: 59:48

Yes, but still, there we go. Apple Podcasts has a bug in it. Oh, surprise, surprise. The bug is weird. It's an iOS 18 bug and apparently it is marking shows as played when they haven't been. That's one way to get your numbers up. Yes or something. I'm not quite sure what's going on there, but Apple podcasts agree that there is a bug and they say that a fix is coming in iOS 18.1, which is coming out in a couple of weeks. So yeah, but yes, a bug in Apple. Who would have thought?

Speaker 1: 1:00:28

Yeah, as I say, I think Apple intelligence is also coming out of that point. It's really nice of Siri just to say I don't know the answer. I'll ask Chuck GBT. That's Apple intelligence for you.

Speaker 2: 1:00:39

Yes, I am, of course. I do not have a fancy enough phone for that.

Speaker 1: 1:00:43

Nor I.

Speaker 2: 1:00:46

Oh right, well, there we are. Also, apple have expanded their transcripts out. Somebody has reminded them that the Nordic countries exist because their transcripts are now supporting Swedish, danish, norwegian and Finnish. Because their transcripts are now supporting Swedish, danish, norwegian and Finnish, alongside that, dutch, italian, portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese as well. They can also detect and this must be an edge case, but they can also now work out when more than one language is being spoken in an episode as well, which is very nice. They say that more than 80 million episodes now have transcripts as well. But of course, if you're bright and clever, then you'll be making your own transcripts, not leaving them up to Apple, because that then means that they go into Pocket Casts and into True Fans and into all manner of other podcasts which also support transcripts as well.

Speaker 2: 1:01:38

But I don't know what's going on with Apple Podcasts. To be honest, sam, I noticed that there's some new numbers from Libsyn showing another new low for Apple Podcasts there. That is now the lowest for a good number of years 45% of all downloads. This time last year it was 66%. And they're not alone, because there's actually quite a lot of other numbers coming out which is showing new lows for Apple Podcasts. Blueberry publishing its stats report for August, and Apple Podcasts has dropped to a new low for them. Our sponsor, buzzsprout, have also reported a three-year Apple low as well. What's going on? Do you think it doesn't appear to be Spotify? Maybe it's YouTube? I don't know, because of course, YouTube wouldn't appear on this list, would they?

Speaker 1: 1:02:33

No, I also think I suspect that there's something going on inside of Apple. The transcripts that they're doing again are going to be used, we know, for some sort of Apple intelligence. Google have been wrapped over their knuckles about having a monopoly on search within browsers, so the deal for £20 billion that Apple paid Google to put Google search is going to have to go away, I suspect, and there's rumours in the market that they're going to have Apple Search Engine to replace Google, and I wonder whether there's some massive, great big announcements coming out of Apple shortly and all the products are just having to hold fire. I don't know whether that's one of the reasons. It doesn't explain why people are not using Apple as much, but maybe they're not as innovative at the moment and it feels like Apple is very un-innovative.

Speaker 1: 1:03:27

I think they've missed out on a ton of tech. I mean they've missed out on search AI glasses. I think they've missed out on cars. I mean the list goes on and on, and I suspect you know iPhone 16s had such a bad rap from most reviewers as being just the same old, with a stupid switch that people don't like because they keep taking photos by mistake. So that's something not healthy right now, I'd say, in Apple, and maybe these numbers just reflect that people are bored of Apple.

Speaker 2: 1:03:57

Yeah, maybe they've lost a bit of their zhuzh, although, I mean, you know, if you're wanting a company that's lost a bit of zhuzh, then Google is most certainly that company as well. So, yes, not quite sure what's going on. I just find it really interesting that Apple is consistently posting quite low numbers and we don't really understand why, because nobody else appears to be affected. So I mean, perhaps it might be a YouTube thing. I don't really understand why, because nobody else appears to be affected. So I mean, perhaps it might be a YouTube thing. I don't know. But yeah, worthwhile keeping a peek on.

Speaker 2: 1:04:29

There are a few other things going on in terms of the tech stuff. Rsscom, a big podcast host. They are adding a way for their podcasters to get their shows sponsored. So if you have more than 1, downloads a month, you can apply. There's a sponsorship opportunities button under the monetization tab in your rsscom dashboard, so to take a peek at that. So that is interesting. And also spotify is doing some a few different things in terms of their user interface as well, just around the podcast world, just making things a little bit easier, which is all good.

Speaker 1: 1:05:10

Now you wrote a piece, james, this week about a company that I hadn't heard about called Overhaul FM, which added support for transcripts. So that's the good news, and the piece wrote as a black-owned and operated company, it was our honour to partner with the Afros and Audio in 2023. They had the opportunity to work with Outlive Festival, so the company seems to be doing very well. And you know, as I said, I hadn't heard about them. But they also posted the bad news and the ugly news, and I thought that was more interesting.

Speaker 1: 1:05:41

Actually, the bad news was creating a podcast app is not easy, hello, and I empathize there, and we strive to do our best in providing the highest quality experience. At times, we struggle and fall short of the mark, and I understand that one as well. And the ugly news they posted is they are starting to use ads to generate revenue, which they probably didn't want to do. I know that's not something that most apps would like to do, but you have to make money somewhere. They've been going about two years. I mean, that is a long slog. You know, two years.

Speaker 2: 1:06:14

It's a long slog, to be honest. A long slog for an app that I certainly haven't heard of, I'm not sure that very many people have heard of. So it's a long slog and, yes, they clearly you know, working hard. I always find it fascinating when you see people who are a little bit honest in terms of the work which is involved and all of that. So I thought it was a really interesting piece from them.

Speaker 1: 1:06:40

Yeah, I thought I'd compare two years. Is you know? Where does that sit within the lexicon of other apps? So Apple Podcasts has been around since about 2005, when it was iTunes 4.9. Spotify is 18 years old. Podverse is five years old. Fountain surprisingly, it was founded in 2021. That's three years old. True Fans ourselves my own company we're nearly two years old, that's all. We were founded in October 26th, so it's coming up to our two-year anniversary. So, again, you know, most of the podcasting Tudor apps are very young still, but two years is a long time. I know that. I know how it feels, but I don't think. I think we're only halfway. I think we're only halfway. So if you have the chance to get, you know, some sort of revenue or funding in, you're going to need it because I think it's a five-year roadmap before you start to see real returns on what you're doing.

Speaker 2: 1:07:38

And many congratulations to OSHA, which has launched OSHA Intelligence. If you were a podcast movement earlier on this year, you would have seen me demonstrate it. I was the first ever beta user of OSHA Intelligence. If there is a difference in what they are doing, it's that they have put so they say some of their SEO knowledge into the system that automatically works out what your podcast should be called, and all of that Interestingly. The little tweak that they have made to how their AI works is that they first let you correct the transcripts before the AI runs, which is a bit different to some of the other models that I've seen and that obviously will give you a better experience. Many congratulations to them for launching it, and you'll find more information at the OSHA website.

Speaker 1: 1:08:32

I thought the one interesting part was they're using GPT-4.0, which was quite interesting, as opposed to 3.5 or any of the other ones 4.0, which was quite interesting as opposed to 3.5 or any of the other ones.

Speaker 2: 1:08:42

Yeah, and I think it's interesting that Blueberry, for example, have been very open and said we will use whatever is best at the time and we're not going to go for one particular LLM, we're just going to use the best and we've built it that way. So I think some interesting going to use the best and we've built it that way. So I think some interesting strategies coming out in terms of this.

Speaker 1: 1:09:07

But always worthwhile keeping an eye on. Just a quick congratulations to Hop Hopper in India for supporting the alternative enclosure that goes along with Captivate and Blueberry, so hopefully more hosts will start to support that tag as well. But, james, phase seven of the podcast namespace is now officially closed. I think Dave Jones was glad to see the back of that phase. I don't think he enjoyed it at all. From what I hear, phase eight is now opening. There are already suggestions for new things within it. One of those is an extension to the location tag. James, tell me more.

Speaker 2: 1:09:40

Yeah, so one of them. I'm putting this one forward. I've stolen a bit of work from Daniel J Lewis, but extended that a little bit further. I would like the current tag, which exists, basically like two different things there. Firstly, I would like to be able to give the location of where you are recording, where you are based, because that is something that a lot of people seem to consider is a very important thing. So you can say that this show is being recorded in, you know, buckinghamshire, but you can also say that this show is about Big Ben and that's in London, and those are two separate places. I think that that makes a bunch of sense.

Speaker 2: 1:10:17

The other thing around the location tag is that it is a hugely complicated thing. So what I've suggested that we do is that we also make a quick and dirty piece of JavaScript that will go off and produce the tag. So all you have to do is you have to type in Eiffel Tower, paris, press a button and it will produce a tag for you with all of the right bits in there. I think that people would find that really useful and helpful, so I've committed to doing that. It won't be great JavaScript, but it will be enough to get you started. So that's the plan there.

Speaker 3: 1:10:55

Boostergram, boostergram, corner, corner, corner On the Pod News Weekly Review.

Speaker 2: 1:11:00

Yes, it's our favourite time of the week. It's Boostergram Corner. Just a reminder that everything that comes into the Pod News Weekly Review just gets shared with Sam and with me and doesn't go to the other 45 people working for the Pod News newsletter. Yeah right, yeah right, no, wow, yeah right, yeah right, no, wow, yeah right.

Speaker 1: 1:11:22

The empire strikes back.

Speaker 2: 1:11:24

Anyway. So we no boosts this week. At least no boosts came through to my node. I think something went wrong four days ago, so I've given that a remote hit. But we did get one fan mail and it's a fan mail from the United Arab Emirates.

Speaker 2: 1:11:46

Well, it's clearly for you then, not me. Go on. It clearly is Talking about episode number 90, where I was talking about crossing the road from a hotel to the Museum of the Future, a hotel to the museum of the future and this person ending 2321 says I think the hotel starts with a, b. It did not, but that's a good guess. So thank you for your guess and try again. Let's try it again.

Speaker 1: 1:12:13

C, D, let's keep going.

Speaker 2: 1:12:16

Yes, and the funny thing is, here's a clue. The funny thing is it didn't start with a letter of the alphabet at all. Hmm, there's a thing. He'd have worked it out. Now, he or she and the power supporters are Magnificent11. Thank you to those people for going to weeklypodnewsnet and sharing some of your exciting fiat money. Thank you all so much for your help and support, much appreciated.

Speaker 1: 1:12:58

So what's happened for you this week, Sam? Well, I enjoyed the Kamala Harris appearance on Call Her Daddy.

Speaker 2: 1:13:03

Yeah, Very female-focused, that one was yes or derided by some of the media as the sex show.

Speaker 1: 1:13:11

Well, yeah, listen to it before you write your post. I know, I know, but I think what's interesting, the Atlantic had an article about why Trump and Harris are turning to podcasts.

Speaker 2: 1:13:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:13:24

And I think one of the quotes from it was I'm as guilty as anyone, but we need to stop treating these podcasts as the alternative media when they are absolutely the mainstream. These days, the top ones have audiences as big, if not bigger, than most of their legacy outlets and I think that's true and they're reaching different audiences. I think one of the reviews was that if you want to reach the older audience, the mainstream is probably the best way to go, but if you want to reach the younger audience, then podcasting is the way to go.

Speaker 2: 1:13:55

Yeah, because podcasting is the mainstream these days. That was Helen Lewis who ended up saying that and she went on. We should stop treating the mega podcasts like mum and pop outfits competing with chain stores. They're behemoths or behemoths Anyway. They're very big. So, yes, I would completely agree with that. I also enjoyed listening to Trump being literally laughed at in one of the podcasts that he ended up doing because he got so befuddled in one of his answers. It was the weave. That's his genius and he was literally laughed at, which was quite entertaining.

Speaker 1: 1:14:38

Yeah, I avoided the Tucker Carlson interview with Elon Musk like the plague, but I have to say if Obama was the social media president, then potentially the president who makes it into the office again this time might be named the podcast president.

Speaker 2: 1:14:53

The podcast president, yikes, have you seen anybody exciting recently? Any names you wish to drop? I'm here waiting for you to drop the names so that I can pick them up. Go.

Speaker 1: 1:15:07

Well, I went to see Yuval Noah Harari in London talking about his book the Nexus.

Speaker 2: 1:15:14

Are you having drinks with anybody?

Speaker 1: 1:15:16

Yeah, with Stephen Bartlett from Diary of a CEO. We're going for drinks together Very nice, and Tim Berners-Lee has joined the Fediverse. I've told you my Tim Berners-Lee embarrassing story. I think I don't think you have have you?

Speaker 1: 1:15:27

Yeah, so I was at Netscape and on my table next to me was Tim Berners-Lee, and it was a presentation from one of the US Netscape guys, and I didn't know who Tim Berners-Lee was, so I just turned round to him and said who are you and what have you done? Yes, so there you go. My question to Tim Berners-Lee what have you ever done? That went down really well. I wish I could have taken that back, and I'd love to have dinner with you again, tim, if you ever want to. Oh, yikes, gosh.

Speaker 2: 1:15:56

Yes, oh, there we are.

Speaker 1: 1:15:59

And then I bought a new toy, james. Yes, oh yes, the DJI Neo. It is a new drone from DJI. It's only 135 grams and, unlike the Rode videocaster, it does take 4K. So yeah, it can do that, but it takes off and lands in your palm.

Speaker 6: 1:16:24

And it's amazing. Well, there you go, it looks toys for the boys.

Speaker 2: 1:16:26

It looks. It looks awfully fancy, but still, there we are. By the way, if you're looking for tim berners-lee on the fediverse, um, then obviously. Uh, he hasn't called his account tim berners-lee, because that would be too easy to find. He's just called it timble, so just search for.

Speaker 1: 1:16:41

That's always been his handle.

Speaker 2: 1:16:42

Yeah, but I mean a handle. Yes, but also in the real name section he's put Timble as well. So it means that he's impossible to search for Silly man, anyway, whatever has he done, but if you search for T-I-M-B-L then you will end up finding that. So, yes, all good.

Speaker 1: 1:17:00

Come on, what have you been up to? You're in Canada, but what else have you been doing?

Speaker 2: 1:17:09

So, yes, I had a nice wander around. It's a bit weird this conference, because I don't know very many people. I mean, to be fair, I know virtually nobody. Tim Davey was here yesterday from the BBC. He's the boss of the BBC and he was speaking. He's a very good speaker and doing some very smart things. One of the things that he said was that he has 500 journalists who he employs who can't go back to their home country because of the reporting that they have done, which really kind of makes you think gosh, which really kind of yeah, makes you think gosh. Yeah, I mean, he's got the occasional, you know issues with staff and everything else, but blimey, those are some really selfless people who are reporting and, because of their reporting, can't actually go back to their home country. So that was fascinating.

Speaker 2: 1:18:00

Lots of talk about AI at this conference as well, but it's all public service broadcasters and all of that.

Speaker 2: 1:18:09

It's an interesting sort of mix of people believing that they are bigger than they are, as some of these broadcasters, you know, still seem to consider themselves to be absolutely massive, and you kind of wish that there were some people around saying actually, you're not really very big and you should probably be focusing a little bit more on making sure that you are attracting a new generation of audiences rather than an old generation of audiences, but maybe that's what I'll be saying when I speak later on this morning, so who knows? But apart from that, yes, ottawa is a very nice place. Wandered around, saw the Parliament House, walked into a different province because we're right on the border of Ottawa, and no, we're not. We're right on the border of Ottawa and no, we're not. We're right on the border of Ontario and Quebec. So walked into the French place, which was mostly closed, and then walked back again. So, yes, it's all been very, very pleasant. Have I bought anything new and exciting? No, not really, but still, there we are.

Speaker 1: 1:19:16

You want your Ray-Bans, go and get those Ray-Ban letters. You'll love them, mate. You will love them Take my word for it.

Speaker 2: 1:19:22

Don't want any of them. That's not what we want.

Speaker 1: 1:19:25

Not what we want. Anyway, does your Australian citizenship lapse if you spend less than six months of the year in the country? Oh, I don't believe so, Given how much you're out of the country. I'm just asking?

Speaker 2: 1:19:40

I don't believe so. No, I mean, it's what happens if you? I'm not allowed to spend longer than 90 days within the UK? Right, because if I do per year, if I do, then the UK starts to want tax. So we don't do that. But there's no. Yeah, but you don't get told off if you spend time outside of Australia, thankfully. But yes, I'm looking forward to being home for a couple of days later on in the week and then I'm back into Europe and going all around there as well. Slightly nervous in that at least two of the speaking engagements I've got next week want my slides and I haven't actually written them yet. So, yeah, that'll be fun. Anyway, that's it for this week. All the stories covered in the podcast were taken from the Pod News daily newsletter and you can subscribe to that at podnewsnet, and there are longer interviews in the Pod News Extra podcast. You'll find them both wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1: 1:20:39

You can support this show with streaming search. You can give us feedback using the bus sprout fan mail link in our show notes. You can send us a boostagram. Go on, even when james's thing's fallen over, we'll catch up with it a little week after.

Speaker 2: 1:20:52

Or you can become a power supporter, like the magnificent 11 at weeklypodnewsnet our music is from Studio Dragonfly, our voiceover is Sheila Dee, our audio uses Clean Feed and we're hosted and sponsored by Buzzsprout. Start podcasting, keep podcasting. Get updated every day. Subscribe to our newsletter at podnewsnet.

Speaker 6: 1:21:17

Tell your friends and grow the show and support us, and support us. The Pod News Weekly. Review will return next week. Keep listening.