SPEAKER_06 0:00

We've produced beautifully crafted six-part narrative. We don't visualize those shows because we've been making a documentary that would have to have those incredible production values and would then make it completely untenable from a commercial point of view.

James Cridland 0:14

This week a big picture look at podcasting round the world. And while Sam's away, we have a special guest.

Announcer 0:22

With James Kridler and Sam Sethy. This is the Pod News Weekly Review with Buzz with Buzz Sprout. Start podcasting, keep keep keep podcasting.

James Cridland 0:34

Sam Sethy's away this week, not quite sure where. It probably involves wine. So looking after the Pod News Weekly Review this week is very excited. Drum roll.

Who is Elsie Escobar?

James Cridland 0:45

Elsie. Woo! Good generic time of the day to you. I believe it's the phrase.

SPEAKER_09 0:51

I know it is such a generic time, not the same as yours.

James Cridland 0:55

No, exactly. Exactly. It's the morning for me, it's the evening for you. Thank you so much for coming on. Uh very, very much appreciate it. I think we first met in Philadelphia. Yes, we do. In the market in Philadelphia. Uh, because I was a listener of a different podcast that you once did. And uh, yes, and so it was a listener meetup, and I remember going there, which was uh which was great fun. You and Rob. Um uh in the middle of the market that we then had a a party in, I seem to remember.

SPEAKER_13 1:22

Yeah, it was a little, it was a meetup, and we were all in a circle.

SPEAKER_05 1:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_13 1:27

And uh yeah, but that that was the very first time we met, and I think I have pictures. I'm not sure. I I have pictures of the room, like of the of all of us seated together. It was very hard to get a photo because it was in the in the round, you know. But it was so it was a lovely time.

James Cridland 1:45

Yeah, that was that was good fun, wasn't it? That was a long, long time ago. A long, long time ago. So you're working at Captivate as their creator success and community manager. What what's that? What do you do there?

SPEAKER_13 1:57

Yeah, so what I get to do is I connect what the Captivate team builds with what the creators actually need. And and I make sure that the conversation flows in both directions, right? So I translate the new features into practical education through live events and podcasts and videos and community conversations. And just as importantly, I bring what we hear from creators back to the team. So we continue building products and experiences that solve, you know, like real problems, things that uh independent podcasters are really looking to solve.

James Cridland 2:34

It's a really important um part of the work, really, because actually there's quite a lot of people that just go plowing ahead with their plans and they don't actually consider what the customers want. So that's probably a good thing. I should um I should say that I used to be an advisor for Captivate, not anymore. Uh, and I should also obviously point out that this podcast is hosted and sponsored by Buzzsprout, which is a competitor to Captivate. So here's hoping they've not spotted I've asked you on. Um, you also host a weekly podcast about podcast news with interviews and things. That sounds like a uh a new and novel idea.

SPEAKER_13 3:06

Yes, right. So my goodness, in and around podcasting. And although we are not weekly, we're bi monthly or fortnightly. Yeah, fortnightly.

James Cridland 3:17

Fortnightly is easier, isn't it?

SPEAKER_13 3:18

Fortnightly is so much easier to understand. And um, yeah, so it's so fun because Rob and I do get a chance to just come back. Like we've we've worked together for so long, so we really we kind of have a really good rapport and understand how each other works, but also we get to expand. And that's the fun part. He just did an episode with like a whole entire round table talking about um podcast advertising, and it was very sort of inside baseball. And then I yeah, it was wasn't it so great? I really enjoyed that actually. And then um, I've had guests on myself, and then so I get to ask other people. We're gonna be having another episode coming up here, uh, also that is gonna be featuring really interesting ways in which you can use dynamic audio insertion, but outside of the sales, more as an editorial or content tool. And that was really fun. That's gonna be a really great one.

James Cridland 4:14

Cool. And that's uh Amy, isn't it, that lets you do that.

SPEAKER_13 4:17

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's so it's so fun.

James Cridland 4:19

Captivate isn't the only thing that you do, um, though, is it? So, what what's what are the other things that you do?

SPEAKER_13 4:25

I actually work with experienced creators. It's kind of where my niche is now. So people who've been podcasting and building online for, I don't know, 10, 15, sometimes 20 years. So they're not usually beginners, they know how to make great stuff, they're usually just exhausted by the pressure to keep producing more and more just to stay visible. And, you know, so many transitions that are demanded of folks that are behind mics lately. And so what I help them do is to build sustainable systems around their expertise so that they can create like more intentionally, make smarter decisions about tools and workflows and build work that's actually meant to last, which actually I do feel that kind of fits with a lot of the conversations we're having on the show. And I do that through my mentorship program that's called the e-league, and through multimodal e, which is my independent media company exploring what it means to build a voice-led business where technology supports the work instead of driving it. And so it's really about helping people create with more coherence, more longevity, and a little less chaos, at least. That's what I hope.

James Cridland 5:39

Yeah, yeah. And I think that that was that was a a really interesting part of the round table that was just on in and around podcasting, because uh the question was asked, how much, how many downloads do you need to make money from your from your podcast? And one of the answers was, well, we we normally look for about 5,000, not because that number actually helps us, it's because that number tells us that someone is committed enough for the long haul. And I thought that was a really interesting answer. It's it's actually not really about what the number is, it's about commitment, it's about making sure that you end up doing that. And so you're you're working with a lot of people that have been um in this for a while and wanting to get better.

SPEAKER_13 6:18

Yes, and it's actually I've helped uh a few of them um pivot, transition, or possibly put their podcast down and say goodbye. So, which is kind of a place that I feel I'm I really actually love to play to to work there, really vetting whether or not you should continue with your podcast or not, because I think we get very caught up with our feels when we're producing content that comes from a real deep place of of who we are, but then we change. And then some of these folks have been doing the same stuff for over a decade and they're no longer that person.

SPEAKER_05 6:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 6:58

And so being able to really look at their legacy content, who they were before, who they are now, how to leverage that all of that archival material that they have and make sure that they can move forward in a way that really feels good for them. Because I'm sure, I'm sure you have had this experience listening to people's podcasts when you know the spark is gone, but they're doing it because they've always done it and they have a business built around it.

James Cridland 7:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_13 7:27

And it's it's hard because you know, like you guys, you're all are you're all done with this. It's okay to say goodbye.

James Cridland 7:33

Yeah, let's not mention Bill Simmons. Anyway, um no, absolutely. That I mean, and and there's lots of people that have just, as you say, lost that creative spark and they need that creative spark back. Uh, if you want to find out more details about any of this, um you will find links in our show notes. Elsie has a very good uh short link domain name, I noticed, uh, which is very cool. So uh you should take a peek at that. Um uh that would be excellent. Should we should we dive into the news?

SPEAKER_13 8:01

Let's do it. Let's do it.

The Podcast Atlas

SPEAKER_13 8:03

A new piece of research called the podcast atlas came out this Wednesday, and it highlights how podcasts are becoming more multi-platform with creators using audio and video short form, social and newsletters. The research also says audiences are switching between those two, James.

James Cridland 8:25

Yeah, it's really interesting uh data. I've not seen the full deck yet, but in terms of uh podcast listeners, uh, 73% would follow a creator from audio to video. I would like to know the other way around. Uh 71% say that they would follow that creator from long-form content to short form clips. So actually, audience loyalty is tied to creators rather than any single platform uh or format, it says. Um it also says that um clips are really good. Uh 84% of people that consume clips say that the uh podcast clips that they have seen on YouTube and uh and in other places lead them to become regular listeners, um, which is really good. So actually, clips, very useful. We've never done a clip for this show, um, but uh really useful uh in terms of that. Is this um stuff that you've seen, uh Elsie, in your work with um podcast creators?

SPEAKER_13 9:20

I have. I actually have. I've I've I've done this, it's how I it's now in thinking back, it is probably one of the primary ways that I am exposed to a new podcast that I then listen to. And it it usually has to do with a topic because a lot of the algorithms within social media are there so that you know, whenever you click something or you hover over a video a little too long, it starts to give you all the things that have to do with that specific topic. And when I have been doing that, usually they're very good at providing me with a corresponding podcast that has to do with a topic that I was curious about.

James Cridland 10:06

Yeah, I do find it really interesting. What is your attitude with video? Obviously, Captivate as well as Buzz Sprout support video. And you've done, I think, one in and around podcasting in video uh on there, but you've been consuming video podcasts for a long time, haven't you?

SPEAKER_13 10:21

Yes, I have it. You know, let me let me tell you a story. This is a great place for me to share this story, James. It's going to disclose a little bit of the behind the scenes of doing video, right? Because first of all, I'm fine doing any kind of video that really allows you to communicate and connect with your audience, and especially if your message is the thing that leads, and you as a producer are comfortable doing it and are willing to step into it for the learning curve. Oh do it. But here's something that practically happened for us when we were recording that episode of the video, which is what we wanted to do to release the video support of HLS in Captivate. Okay. Yes. So we record we all got there. We it was all planned. We we were all there to do this round table recording, and the tool that we were using to record had a little bit of a hiccup, and it continued to have hiccups where it became where we didn't have time to continue recording. Okay. So we started recording, dropped three times, had to record the rest of the episode two days later.

James Cridland 11:41

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_13 11:42

And then we finished it that way. I had like five or six pieces of uh of video that would needed to be spliced together.

James Cridland 11:53

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_13 11:53

And you know how easy it was to get an audio podcast episode out that sounded amazing. Nobody knew the difference. We picked up exactly where we left off, it was seamless, and so I made the as a producer call where I was like, my time to put into putting something, slapping this together, really, is what would have happened, would have been detrimental to what we were trying to do. So I scrapped the video apart. And because we didn't have the the time, everybody's time is very important. Like, you know, Mark and Rob and Danny's time, they have to be doing the work. So recording podcasts that fail because the video didn't, or we couldn't go in there, you know, all that stuff. It was so much easier to do the audio portion of it. So that's just a logistical thing that could possibly happen. And um and so it does become a little bit more challenging.

James Cridland 12:57

Yeah, yeah. No, exactly, exactly. It's what that that is one of the reasons why I don't do video for this. Um, uh, there are plenty of reasons why why I don't do video for this. Uh, although we have just been um uh a video has just been turned on for us by by our friends at Buzz Sprout, so I suppose we're gonna have to use it at some point. Um Sam is Sam is very you have to test it out just so that I know what I'm doing. I've done a few videos on the pod news daily, um, but uh yeah, but not for this um particular show. You um used to uh look after She podcasts, you were one of the uh founders of She Podcasts, which was a great movement to get more uh women involved in podcasting. Does video change anything here for the better or for the worse?

SPEAKER_13 13:46

I do feel that it's a little more it's more challenging, at least you know, for those of us who um feel that society looks at us in a specific lens, you know, because we've even, you know, as at least for me as a somebody who was raised in a culture that was very much female and male in the Latino culture, right? It's very much girls and boys, and there's a lot of binary there. And to know that you are to look nice and to dress nice and to be feminine and to all of those things, to understand that presenting yourself that way on camera and you just have to be put yourself together, you know, it's it's a it's a lot. I I feel it internally, whether externally that is a thing, yeah. I don't quite know, but I feel it is, and I do know that whenever I am going to do a presentation, if I'm gonna do a live stream, if I'm gonna do a video, I have to prepare, I have to have an extra hour just to get myself looking to or feeling comfortable with the way that I look, you know?

James Cridland 14:53

And a lot of it is feeling comfortable rather than anything else. But yes, no, you you're you're absolutely right. Absolutely right. It's it's a big thing, I think.

SPEAKER_13 15:01

I started doing video from the beginning, uh like almost 20 years ago. You can find I have receipts, they're all on YouTube. So I remember very specifically doing my intro to a lot of the podcast episodes that I did, and I did some supplementary material as a podcast, but I very distinctly remember putting the stuff on YouTube and immediately getting comments just coming at me at the way that I looked. And people were not very nice, and they would just immediately go, like, why are her lips so dry? And I remember at that time I was so kind of taken aback and and and felt very just uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_05 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 15:46

And yeah, and who are these people? Like, why are you posting that? Like what is happening, and so it kind of turned me off of kind of pursuing YouTube more seriously, even at that time, because of the comments. I didn't have it in me at that time to sort of block them. I I was too, you know, yeah. I I felt it. I felt it, yeah.

James Cridland 16:10

Yeah, not not not great. I read an interview uh with you from July 2007, Elsie. Oh, and you uh and it says in here that you feel that there's a deeper connection between the podcaster and the listener in audio, but that you have found a few video podcasts to watch. This is July 2007, right? And you're here talking about two different video podcasts, one of them um called Hometown Baghdad, a couple of guys in Baghdad. Yeah, yes, yeah, is this ringing any bells? Yeah, and another one which the uh the only thing I know about it is it's called Jet Set.

SPEAKER_13 16:46

Yes, you know what? What the hell?

James Cridland 16:48

Any idea?

SPEAKER_13 16:48

Jet Set! Oh my gosh, Jet Set. Yes, that was so like uh the woman who duh did Jet Set at that time, they were doing these incredible Zadi Diaz is her name. I've been following her since back then. Okay, she did like some stuff in terms of Me Too, like she worked for Me Too for a while. She was really one of the early pioneers uh using video to create shows. And and Jet Set wasn't an actual proper show, it was like a mini um multimedia, kind of like entertainment tonight, uh celebrity-driven type show. It was it was it had segments, it had really cool filming, and I loved those two shows. Yeah, and the Baghdad one was like in it was happening, like they were in that like they were shooting the realities of what it was like to be there and communicating in real time what was happening.

James Cridland 17:52

Yeah, yeah, no, it's uh it's it's quite it's quite a thing. If you want to read this um this uh interview, uh it is in podcast user magazine. Yes. Um which you can find all of the podcast user magazines at archive.podnews.net because we have all of them there because they were kind enough to give them uh all uh uh to us. You you even mentioned, I don't think you're working with Rob Walsh at the time, but you even mentioned listening to podcast 411 as well. Yeah. Uh uh in there as well.

SPEAKER_13 18:23

It is such a trip.

James Cridland 18:24

So there's a thing. See?

SPEAKER_13 18:25

So that I I have receipts. I have you have receipts?

James Cridland 18:31

It's all good. It's all good. We were talking about clips and how useful clips are. Um, there is a really useful um uh thing this week in uh Buzzsprout's newsletter talking about a new podcast called Two Guys on a Plane. Of course, it's in video as well. Um, and they talk about um basically taking one recording to make lots of different things from it. Audio podcast episode, YouTube content, social clips, uh, video podcasts and Apple Podcasts, of course, as they do now. If you don't get the Buzzsprout newsletter uh yet, um then that's fine. You can find a podcast called Buzz Sprout Weekly, which is where Megan reads it out to you, uh, which is uh very cool. Uh let's move

Riverside upgrades

James Cridland 19:12

on, shall we?

SPEAKER_13 19:12

Yeah, so Riverside is rolling out what it calls the biggest update in its history. A new, fully rebuilt recording studio and AI editor, social scheduling to automatically post to every channel, motion graphics in the video editor, a newsletter publishing tool. Lots more features, James. It's they've got all of the things in one place.

James Cridland 19:41

Yeah, don't they just? Um you can also uh connect your AI assistant like Claude or ChatGPT into that if you want to. Um and you can now use Riverside's Mac app to record in person. So if you're doing a you know a uh uh a round table uh in your garage, uh then you can absolutely do that with the Riverside app as well, which is uh really impressive. Uh it's been a while since I've used that um tool, so I should probably dive in uh as well. And of course, they are a podcast host as well. I guess Captivate has loads of tools as well for podcasters. You've got a really good guest booking system, which Danny has once used for me. Um paid memberships, those sorts of things. Do you think that we will see all podcast hosts adding as many features as they possibly can?

SPEAKER_13 20:30

Oh my goodness. I'm gonna expand that answer into SaaS companies. How's that? I think I think that SaaS companies or you know, software as is service companies that keep moving forward are the ones that integrate with the tools people are already using and get really clear about who they are or who their core users truly are, because there's a lot to be said about who we are as captivate. We're very clear about the the folks that we are serving at the moment. And even then you start to go like, wow, these folks here, like this this sort of um part of our audience or the people who are using the product are these type of producers, whereas these types of producers are needing something different, and you start to kind of expand that to serve the needs. But when you start to create a tool like Riverside, I think it does create um when you add all of the things, I think it's great. I think it really works wonderful for people who are stepping into it. But there are a lot of organizations, which is what it looks like to me that this is serving. It's not just producers, it's like entire companies.

SPEAKER_11 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 21:49

And to be able to support the systems that they need to continue doing what they're doing already. They built out all of that stuff. I'm gonna add one last layer here. Here um James, that is, I've started to build my other website for multimodally on Ghost. And I love Ghost. I I love the ethos of Ghost. I think it's an amazing, amazing tool. And I signed up for it and I paid for a year already for it. And I started, and I really love it as a creator. I think it's such an expansive platform. It makes me feel wonderful. But it is missing tools that somebody who's running a business really needs as it pertains to reaching their audience and segmenting communications with people and being able to only send an email here and not send an email there, and being able to give access to people here and not those over there, and having um even follow-ups with like, let's say somebody is looking to purchase and you want to and they abandon cart or something like that, you know, and they you kind of want to have a little message that tells them how to do that. Like all of that stuff is really imperative and really important for larger businesses or people who are really running a business.

SPEAKER_05 23:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 23:13

Whereas creators are looking for less of that type of tooling because it the uh but it because they're offering something else. But uh so it there's there's a lot to be said about creating it all in one place, but understanding that you're never going to be able to give everything needed to all the needs of all the different types of users in a platform.

James Cridland 23:38

You posted something on LinkedIn, I think it was LinkedIn, might have been Facebook, um, saying, How many tools are you using for your podcast? How many tools are you paying for? Um, I'm curious as to whether, you know, what sort of responses you got. Are people using a lot of different uh of different tools these days?

SPEAKER_13 23:57

You know what I found, and this was a really intriguing thing, I did post it all through all my throughout my social, is exactly what I just told you, which is there are some producers who are really basically stuck with what they started with. They're using something like Audacity and they have a podcast host. Yeah, and that's it. And those are the guy the folks who are like just doing it the way that they've always done it. And then you have the folks that are building more businesses, and then they have a lot more needs to do to conduct that business, and that doesn't necessarily mean an entrepreneurial podcast, none of that. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about folks that happen to have to render services for other people that are a little bit more full, like me. You know, I need to have a tool, a tool set that has the capability to live stream, that I'd be able to record things, that I'm able to also do audio production, that I'm able to deliver um, you know, short form video content if necessary, that I'm able to write something. And so all of those tools are not necessary for all podcasters, but for the type of creator that I am and the services that I give, I do need all these things. So it's a different, I'm a different demographic or psychographic, I guess, for using some of these tools. And that's what I saw.

James Cridland 25:26

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Really, really interesting. And it is interesting seeing different podcast hosts really aiming at different types of people as well. I mean, you know, that's certainly what we're seeing too. Uh Beehive has also added a new tool for group subscriptions, so you can sell your newsletter. Apparently, newsletters are a thing, who knew, uh, to large companies. Um, they're doing podcast hosting too, of course, uh now, and they're making quite a splash in that part of the world. They did $30 million last year in revenue, according to Sam. Yeah, so they're a big old company uh as well. They've got a lot, lots of very big announcements, I think, coming up uh any day now. So uh who who knows what they're going to be uh talking about. But uh yeah, Beehive is also one to watch.

SPEAKER_13 26:11

It's very good. I've seen a lot of people really um enjoy Beehive. In fact, I would probably tend to lean towards Beehive uh above all the other ones, just because I I do like that tooling and I don't I'm not particularly too fond of uh Substack. Yes.

James Cridland 26:30

No, uh no indeed. Substack is an interesting one. They seem to allow anybody on, which is a bit of a problem. Um, but uh yes, yeah, it I I I do think it'll be interesting to see whether Beehive does the bare minimum that they need to get podcasting out there, or whether Beehive actually you know invests a little bit more. But uh we will end up we will end up seeing, no doubt.

Captivate adds monetisation tools

SPEAKER_13 26:53

We have another story.

James Cridland 26:55

We do.

SPEAKER_13 26:56

Yes, yes, yes. And it's something that you covered in pod news recently, James.

James Cridland 27:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 27:03

What was that?

SPEAKER_13 27:04

I know. What could it be? Growth-oriented podcast host Captivate has turned on captivate monetization, a full suite of tools to help its podcasters earn revenue from advertising.

James Cridland 27:17

Well, thank heavens you're here. So tell me what they are from a creator point of view and how they work.

SPEAKER_13 27:26

Okay, so the biggest thing is that this isn't just about ads. It's really, I think, overall, about giving independent podcasters the same kinds of monetization and campaign management tools that larger publishers have had for years. So it just makes it so that you can, you it doesn't matter how many podcast downloads you have, right? So one of the most useful changes in in campaign management, which is what was well, it is called AMI, um, but it's Amy campaign management. So this is like version two of what was rolled out. And even if you never run a single advertisement yourself, you can now manage dynamic content much more intentionally. So instead of thinking in terms of individual ad insertions, you can create campaigns for your own promotions and event, you know, announcements and trailer slaps and newsletter calls to action and all that stuff, and schedule them across your catalog without, you know, manually having to update all of that per episode. And it's fairly easy to do that, to be able to start them, end them, and you know, run them however you want. And, you know, you ask here that what the reaction really was. And the reaction has actually been really thoughtful. And of course, people are excited because they are always excited about making money, right? All the making money opportunities. But the biggest conversations have been around workflows and control. And our users really wanted to understand how it fits into the way they already podcast and what happens to Amy, uh, how much control they have over ads and whether they can use these tools, even if they don't want to participate in the marketplace, which is the other side of the coin there. The marketplace is where you it really is about the selling and buying of podcast ads, but also being able to run programmatic ad campaigns, which are not obviously your own uh individually red ads that are being placed in this, but they're just, you know, they pop in. When you tell, when you you choose the spots and you have full control on how many, where they're placed, and all of that stuff. So those are the the questions that we've been spending the most time answering. And it's actually what I've been really trying to focus on to create content around to see how we can create an ecosystem of education so podcasters have their answers based on their needs.

James Cridland 29:54

Yeah, I think that there's a load of new features in there. Um uh Amy, allowing you to schedule dynamic content, and of course, uh Buzzbrat has some great dynamic content uh tools as well, if you want to uh schedule stuff into pre-rolls and mid-rolls and post-rolls and all of that. But I think um it's really helping people understand what you can do with that and all of the benefits of that. Is it going to make lots of people rich overnight, or is this something which is just an addition which is just helpful to begin to make your creativity a bit more self-sustaining?

SPEAKER_13 30:26

Oh yeah, I think that that's what it is. And it's it's it's important to understand that uh well, I actually said this in in our upcoming episode of In and Around Podcasting, but that no, there's no tool that's gonna make you money.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 30:40

There's there's no tool that's gonna make you money. That's just not gonna happen. So there's a lot more involved to building out how that might happen for you. Tools make it easier for you to do that, right? So, in in understanding especially that if you have a small show, programmatic advertising isn't really suddenly gonna start to you know pay you to quit your job. It's that's just not gonna happen. And there's a lot of math that's involved with doing that and you projecting how much income you actually could make with programmatic. And and what's really amazing is that with Captivate, you can choose, right? You can go, you know what, this isn't really worth my time to even set this up, but you can set it up for yourself and you can promote your own stuff in there. You can really guide what that is for you within RUI. And it allows you to have the expansiveness to create exactly what you just mentioned before. This is to be able to sustain your creativity, which is challenging out there for sure. Yeah, right. So there are, and and what's really great is that for larger creators or creators who already sell sponsorships directly, the marketplace and campaign management tools reduce a lot of that operational like work that you have to do in there. So the value isn't just earning the money, it's really making that monetization part a lot easier to manage.

James Cridland 32:05

Yeah, and and that's I I think one of the things I've I was contacted recently with somebody that had a an incredible tool just built for newsletter people, just built for people that are writing newsletters and it deals with ad sales and it deals with, you know, all of this kind of uh stuff. And I was there thinking, gosh, actually, having that suite of tools is a really useful thing. So uh yeah, so if you want to hear more about uh Captivates um uh new uh monetization stuff, then we had Mark Asquith, of course, and Brian Conan uh in this show a few weeks ago, which is uh all good. News

YouTube is getting bigger

James Cridland 32:42

from the world of TV, Elsie.

SPEAKER_13 32:44

Oh my gosh, news from the world of TV. So get this YouTube has 13.4% of all TV watching in the US, says Nielsen's latest gauge report. Netflix is at 7.8%, tubi is at 2.3%.

James Cridland 33:05

Oh my. Oh my. Yeah, YouTube is massive, isn't it? 13.4% uh of all TV watching. So that's you know, you you can include the CBSs and the ABCs in there. Uh all TV watching, YouTube is already that big. Do you do you use YouTube when you're sort of relaxing or or or yeah?

SPEAKER_13 33:25

Yeah, yeah, I do. I I do use it. I and like you said, like when you're saying use it, I do use it to learn, I use it to educate myself, right? To do research and to

Highlight: The Big Picture from podcasting

SPEAKER_13 33:37

relax.

James Cridland 33:38

Do you think that you need uh video to succeed these days as a as a podcaster?

SPEAKER_13 33:43

Oh my gosh. So that's nuance because it does you you might use video, right, here and there, but I am I'm also a big fan of not just repurposing your YouTube excuse me, your podcast, your audio podcast into video. Like I have found that what has really worked for me is talking about my podcast in a video.

unknown 34:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_13 34:08

You know what I mean? Just saying, hey guys, I what you know, and just putting that out there, using that as an Instagram story, creating a really quick, like one-minute thing where I'm promoting something specific. And oh, that sounds so much easier to edit. Yeah, oh my gosh, you could just do it straight into the thing. So I do feel as a promotional tool, it does you do need an element of that. I'm finding that even in promoting in and around podcasting, which I at this point I don't vision it as a video podcast at this time. I think occasionally it might do it, but I do find that it's challenging to in terms of the promotional parts. So you have to get a lot more creative. And not that.

James Cridland 34:53

Yeah, but doing a doing a one minute, a one-minute short and slinging that on as many different platforms as possible. That's a great plan. That's a great plan. I'm I'm I'm I I'm far more on board with that.

SPEAKER_13 35:02

Isn't it doesn't it feel a little so much easier for you to just do that really quickly and you don't have to be so fancy with it all? Just put it out there. And those types of videos sometimes actually perform better, which are a lot more down-to-earth, you're not trying to perform for the camera. People resonate with that a lot more.

James Cridland 35:20

That's great. Well, look, we've got a pile of other experts from around the world to ask that question too, because at the podcast show London this year, there was a session on stage taking a big picture look at the state of audio featuring some of the podcast show's advisory board. You'll hear from Laura Hagen, Carrie Lieberman, uh, Ariel Nissenblatt, the whole another Hall of Famer. And uh first from Globals, Vicky Etchels, who was asked by Nihal, is it at all possible to start a successful show if you haven't thought very deeply about how it's visualised?

SPEAKER_06 35:54

Yes, I think it is, but I think you are going to limit the amount of audience growth that you're going to be able to access and the amount of people you're going to be able to pull into that show, and therefore, in turn, the amount of revenue you're going to be able to draw into that show if you're not thinking about video. And I think the shift for us at Global has been that we've been thinking about video for eight for ages. The shift that's been significant for us and has had the most amount of effect is moving video from being post-production. And that by that I mean, you know, we have a studio where we're recording audio, we turn on the cameras, we record the audio show, and then we take the video from that, and that's the video. What we've done is moved that production process so video is right at the beginning. So we've got video producers who are brilliant who are saying, right, this kind of content is going to fly on YouTube, this kind of content is going to fly visually on across our social feeds. So we've baked in a consideration about how a show looks right at the beginning in the pre-production. And I think that's the shift for us. So I would say if you're thinking about how you do do, you know, video first, which is this phrase that everyone's throwing around, isn't it, video first? What that actually means. For us, it means doing the video bits in the pre-production, along with plenty of brilliant content and everything, but how that's gonna look.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Carrie, um, is that exactly similar how the Americans see it as well?

SPEAKER_07 37:22

Well, I don't want to speak for all Americans.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

Well, I was gonna ask you about Trump next. So um if you don't, then that's the problem.

SPEAKER_07 37:29

Um I think at least at iHeart, I think we are definitely producing more podcasts and shows with video from the start, but I don't think it's a requirement or a mandate that every show must have video or that video makes sense for every single show. I think um it's definitely something we're producing a lot more of in the last year. More shows are starting as video, and that's sometimes driven by the talent. If the talent's coming from the video space or the TV and film space, and people are used to seeing them on a screen, then it's likely that we're gonna also have a video version of their podcasts because it just makes sense. Um so, but there are some shows that it might not always make sense. So I think it's a little more dependable, and I think the trend is that we're doing a lot more video than we were two years ago.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

But to Vicky's point about maximizing audience, then if the thinking is you the way you're going to really maximize your audience is to be across as many channels as possible, platforms as possible, then how can you make a business case for a podcaster to not be visualized?

SPEAKER_07 38:34

Well, I think you can visualize some shows, even if you're not producing, like Vicky saying from the beginning, like having a full video production team. There are so many tools and ways that you can create video clips and video assets to live in other places to for promotional purposes, for marketing purposes and stuff as well.

SPEAKER_06 38:51

I guess a really good example of that would be a narrative show. You know, we you know we produce, you know, beautifully crafted, beautifully produced, a six-part narrative. The audience is phenomenal for us. We don't visualize those shows because we've been making a documentary that would have to have those incredible production values and would then make it completely untenable from a commercial point of view. So I think that's an example of where right from the off, we know we're not going to intend to visualize that. What we are creating is a really beautiful piece of audio with incredible storytelling.

SPEAKER_07 39:25

And there may be ways like with the the host of that show or the narrator of that show to create some visual assets that could help promote the show on social and in other places.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

Yeah. Ariel, from a creator perspective, is there a pressure that if you're not visualized, you're not going to be successful?

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Extremely, extremely, extremely. And it comes from all aspects. It comes from platforms, it comes from what I like to call, you know, email marketing grifters who are saying if you're not doing video, you're being left behind. You get to decide what's right for you as a creator. Actually, I just went recently to a podcast launch party at City Hall in New York for Rorschach murder at City Hall. And it was in the room where the murder happened 20 years ago, 23 years ago. And it's an audio show, but they had an amazing full episode that they visualized. And that looked like a mix of audiograms with subtitles, with some pictures. Every time a person's face popped up because they were speaking, they put the name tag, they gave a little context on that person. It was amazing. It was a great way for us to, at an actual event, have something to look at because I have been to podcast launch parties where they play audio and you're like staring into space. So I will say video makes sense for some productions, like you say, and there are tools that allow you to get into the visual aspects of things without having to pay for a full video production studio, post-production, all that kind of stuff. The pressure, though, pisses me off, to be honest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Right. Okay. Because there is that feeling that unless you do, and especially like you're a teenager, right? And to have the access to be able to do actually saying that you do have the access to be able to do it because it doesn't need to have those production values that you're talking about, does it?

SPEAKER_07 41:11

Yeah, and that's always been the joy of podcasting, right? As a medium, is that the barrier of entry was a lot easier than some other mediums that existed. And so I think especially for like independent creators and people starting out with just trying to find an audience and build an audience, I think it's important to think about all the places your audience may come from and exist and trying to find ways to reach them. But also it's very costly to produce video from the jump, especially if you don't have an existing ginormous audience to monetize.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

So Laura, what's the philosophy of video? Is it video first at ACASP?

SPEAKER_00 41:44

So uh our philosophy is really up to the creator and what they want to choose, but definitely an omnichannel story. And we've been building that infrastructure at ACAS for the past 10 years and really the opportunities to enable video across all platforms. So our philosophy is really platform agnostic, whether you want to be on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, TikTok, whatever the platforms are, with audio as a component of that as well. But we see it as you know another way for creators to monetize their content and for audiences to be able to consume that content wherever they want to consume it from. So a really important part of our strategy.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

All research that is available so far, plus anecdotal conversations that I've had and that I've sent friends on missions to have suggests that sure, video is great for discovery. I think it's important to be in all places that somebody may find your show and decide to continue to interact with it, maybe become a fan, maybe come become a subscriber eventually, maybe come to live shows. But people are putting it on. If they're at a desktop, they're putting it on and they're continuing to work. Or if they are doing the dishes, they're putting it on. Amy Polar show, for example, good hang, they'll put it on and they'll continue to do the dishes. They'll glance at it. That's important. The glancing economy is here, though. There's not that much need for you to be fully making a TV show because I believe a lot of people who are in the mood for a TV show are going to sit down to watch TV. So video is great. I think you should be there to an extent. Even an audio show can figure out what that offering looks like. But try to figure out what your audience wants first before you jump into deciding for them.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Laura, what do you think of the um the introduction Netflix into this world and the streamers kind of buying up podcasts thinking about creating their roles? What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Yes, our thoughts. My thoughts about that are really that, you know, the Netflixes and coming into this world are kind of like the walled gardens where they're trying to capture the creators and bring them over within their world. And our philosophy is really to be platform agnostic and not have to capture and kind of take that creator and all of their data within their own kind of walled garden. So we're definitely in the mindset of all we understand that you know these creators are creating pop culture and they're creating moments that are similar to TV moments, but really they should not be just putting their audiences all within one location.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

Carrie, your thoughts on the stream as getting involved?

SPEAKER_07 44:22

I mean, I think it's actually a really interesting signal that podcast content is as valuable as any other content that can live in a medium like Netflix or Hulu or um, you know, Peacock. So I think it's a good signal that our medium has matured enough where it's as valuable as content as any other content you can create. Um and so, and I do think to your point, right? Walled gardens are hard. And at iHeart, we've always been, you know, um ubiquitous distribution everywhere. And um the nice thing about at least the deals we structured with Netflix and the shows that are going to Netflix is they're not limited to Netflix. Full form they are, but they are still able to release video on YouTube and obviously in the audio ecosystem as well. So it's it's finding new audiences in a place like Netflix, where I think some of our shows are finding audiences that never knew these shows even existed and will never listen to them as audio shows, but now they're finding new audiences uh through Netflix.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

Ariel, what's the value that a streamer adds to a podcaster? If they've built up their own audience, they've got their own community, they're building it. What do they bring?

SPEAKER_01 45:33

First of all, a streamer is not available to all creators. It's you can't just necessarily get your show up on these platforms. So the majority of creators are not getting deals or getting offers to be distributed on Netflix. But I like what Carrie said about you know, you you can be everywhere, you can have a presence everywhere, sure. You have the exclusive to have your video in one place, but you can still create all sorts of webs where people may be drawn into you. And if they want the full thing, they go to Netflix. But for the independent creator, for the person who's starting out with a low budget, who might have a great idea, eventually has ideas to get picked up by a larger network. The streaming, the the idea of that, I think can be limiting at first. I think you really do, it needs to make sense for you financially to be limited to one place. You need to be incentivized to be only on Netflix. So for now, while that's not the case, be absolutely everywhere. People might be discovering you there. And then it's about finding out how to get into your analytics everywhere and really reading those analytics and figuring out what your watch time is here, what your view listen through rate is here, what changes can you make to make the product what it needs to be in order to move to the next level? Because that's where a lot of people get it wrong is I want to make something because I want to make something. Why do I not have an audience? Because your product is not honed in. You need to figure out what the show is, who it's for, and if they're getting out of it, what they want to get out of it. And you might need to make changes.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

Vicky, what effect do you think this is having on the mainstream television industry? If you guys at Global are visualizing podcasts, you're making programs now, right? You're in the same battle for eyeballs that uh that the TV companies are. Do you think you'll win, or do you not see it as a zero-sum game?

SPEAKER_06 47:23

Yeah, no, I don't I do think it is a zero-sum game. I think they where we try and land with our with our visualized podcast shows are that they are a visualized podcast and they're a YouTube first show, that they're not crap telly. And that's kind of the that's that's where we're we're really careful about the look and the feel of them. We we don't want to make slightly shaped telly. What we want to make is a really, really brilliant YouTube experience or a really brilliant podcast that you can watch. And it's interesting about where people are watching them. A lot of our research and our data shows and tells us that people are watching on you know a connected TV, on a TV in their lounge or a TV in their kitchen, they're not looking and watching on their phone, but they also don't expect the production values of an incredibly polished TV show. And I think going back to your point about you create the show that the audience expects you to create that is right for that show. Like we have a Formula One show called Up to Speed, it's a set, you know, we we film it in a really polished, slick studio because Formula One is slick and polished and glossy, and so that's what we want the product to look like, that's what we want the show to look like. But we've got My Therapist Goes to Me, absolutely huge comedy entertainment show with Vogue Williams and Joanne McNally. Joanne is on tour around the world, she's a stand-up comic, she's often in a hotel room, you know, slightly worse for a wear with a pair of sunglasses on, you know. It's that it but that absolutely works for that show. So I don't think you have to try and make TV. And I think if you do try and make TV, I think we're sort of slightly on a hiding to nothing. I think people consume it in a in a different way. I think the absolute sort of point of success for for for me is when you've been out for a walk, you've started to listen to a show, you come into the house and you carry on watching it on the telly and it works in an audio experience and a visual experience. And I think if we nail that and that's how people consume it, sometimes you watch it, sometimes you listen to it with we've we've got it.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

I want to move on to talk about artificial intelligence and the need or not need for humans to be involved in podcasting. Ariel, you know, say I can just speak to Alexa and say, I really want to do uh create me a podcast about the the great footballing success of my team, Tottenham Hotspur. That'll be a three-minute podcast at least. Um but if I did want to do something like that, no humans are involved in it, I could do that. That's the future. Is it no?

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Or if it is, let's say no. You know, like if you don't want that, it's up to us to say we don't want that. If you want to hear humans, you gotta be loud that you want to hear humans. And even then, there is an this is um news that came out yesterday. I if you ask me, I'll find you the link to it later. But Amazon uh announced that yes, you can speak, you can voice enable and say, I want to have a podcast about this, but it's not, it's available to you. It doesn't create an RSS feed. So it's more I mean, I think voice commands are the future, and if we can figure that out, great. But that also has to do with like search and has implications beyond podcasting. But ultimately for me, it comes down to I think we need to hear humans so that we can build empathy, so that we can care about other people. And it's important for us, even if one day, God forbid, AI becomes exactly equal to the way a human sounds, we still need to reject it and really listen to humans. Maybe there are use cases here and there for bringing a voice back from the dead and you use whatever, and I'm not saying that this might be right for you or for me or whoever. I'm saying that there are some places where I'm like, okay, yeah, use AI, figure that out. But generally speaking, I really think I want to listen to humans. I think a lot of people in the audience want to listen to humans. I think a lot of people in the global podcasting landscape want to listen to humans. And I think we need to push for that. Sick, please, President.

James Cridland 51:43

Arielle Nissenblatt's making a case for AI at the podcast show London. If you want to go next year, the pre-sale sign-up is now live, which gives priority early bird tickets, discounts, and exclusive show benefits for the podcast show in London. The podcast show London.com is where to go. It's on the 19th to the 20th of May 2027. Of course, you should also be going to uh podcast movement, more of which in a bit.

Audiences don't like AI - research

James Cridland 52:06

But um, sticking with AI, there was some interesting research.

SPEAKER_13 52:09

I know, it's no wonder that some producers of AI-generated podcasts try to hide the fact that they're made with AI. It turns out that audiences hate it. According to data from the University of Southern California.

James Cridland 52:27

Yes, if you look at social media, then you can see that posts that were marked as being AI generated got fewer likes, lower engagement, and reflected badly on the person or brand who posted it. And that's not me saying that, that's the University of Southern California saying that. Um, do you agree with the University of Southern California, Elsie?

SPEAKER_13 52:49

Oh my gosh. All right, so I click through. Um I hope that this is uh this is gonna be accessible to your people, right? When you in the show notes and stuff. Okay. So there's a quote in there that I was just like, this nails it because I literally was thinking just this when I went. And this is the quote. PS people have double standards when it comes to AI. We think when we use it, it's accept it's more acceptable, but not when others do. Keep this in mind when you create with AI and think about how it would be perceived by others. I thought that was so on point.

James Cridland 53:27

Yes, very on point. It's a great newsletter. This it's uh a newsletter called Science Says. And every so often the stuff that I go, oh, that's really useful to see. And uh yeah, it's a really good, uh, it's a really good piece. Um uh so uh yes, um uh making sure that um now that doesn't necessarily mean that you could you should just hide the fact that you're using AI. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_13 53:50

No, that is not exactly no, no, no. I absolutely see that and I do, and I think it's of such a nuanced conversation, right? As everything else right now, I think, in production. Yeah, um, because there are all such such just impactful pros and cons on both sides. And I I you know, I'm I'm putting together a podcast, James. Are you really another one? Another one. I know it's been taking me a while. I have like the whole concept, it's just the content that I'm kind of not, I haven't done it quite yet. But and but I was kind of sitting around and going, like, I really would like to have a little music, a little music that goes along with this. I I was thinking about a little intro music and things like that, and I thought, oh, I just don't want to go buy music and I don't want to sit there and choose the music, and I don't want to. So I went in and on Gemini, I asked it to create a piece of music for me. And I was so excited by what came out, right? And then after it came out, I sat back and I was, I just couldn't bring myself, even though it was easy, even though it actually gave me something that I would, in fact, it was exactly what I was looking for, right? Because I I prompted it exactly the type the the thing I wanted. And then when I got it back, I just thought, gosh, what if this is based off of somebody else's music? And I don't know if I want this to happen, but I knew that it it was like it was accessible to me, and I was able to put that music in there without for so as a creator that has low funds moving into creating something, it's so much faster and easier to put things out, and and so it gave me a con I was and so I kind of sat back and I and I didn't choose to use it. I I I'm not going to use that. I'm gonna continue to look at the music that I have purchased in the past that I've never used that is that is meant to be, you know. So I've been digging through all of my files and listening to music, and it's taking me longer, but you know, I just I couldn't do it, but also it's a bit more ethical, isn't it? But it was so you know, ethics is hard.

James Cridland 56:06

Too right, too right. Oh my god, it's it's really hard, it's really hard. I do feel for the the people on Fiverr, so you know, I mean Fiverr used to be a great place. That's where the Pod News logo came from. Uh, is somebody on Fiverr who I think was somewhere in uh Bangladesh or or Pakistan or somewhere. Um, and I was super happy with their work. Uh, you know, I I I gave them a tip, but it was still less than $50 for a logo which I've used for eight years now. Um and that that to me uh you know feels so much better than um just uh you know getting some AI thing to produce something. But um but there again, you know, I've seen some amazing uh uh tools which uh just about to be launched, which have been just entirely created with AI. And I'm there thinking, oh actually, there might be something there. Might be something there. Um

Captions are good

James Cridland 57:04

one final story which I thought was uh interesting, and this is kind of AI as well, because AI is used a lot for transcriptions and for captions and things like that. And we've learned more about those, haven't we?

SPEAKER_13 57:16

Yeah, so sticking, you know, now that we've been talking really about YouTube, so sticking with that conversation, what happens when you add captions to your podcast video on YouTube? And so Headliner surveyed 250 podcasters and discovered that most of them reported higher views or higher view counts as a result.

James Cridland 57:39

Yeah, I uh it it it to me that was really interesting because I had seen that too. When we turned uh captions on on the YouTube version of this podcast, which uh of course is just a logo and some captions. Um but when we turned the captions on, the views went up, um, which I thought was really interesting. And it turns out, according to Headliner, 85% of people watch video on mute. I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_05 58:06

Oh my gosh.

James Cridland 58:07

I'm assuming sometimes watch video on mute rather than always watch video on mute. Yes, not because that's all. That would be weird.

SPEAKER_05 58:13

That would be very weird.

James Cridland 58:15

But I mean, we are a family that um turns the closed captions on on the TV when whenever we watch the TV. Um yeah, just so that you know, because it's sometimes quite useful.

SPEAKER_13 58:29

It is so useful, especially with you folks with the accents.

James Cridland 58:35

At least for me, because I'm I'm one of the questions I was going to ask is do you understand a thing that Mark Asquith says?

SPEAKER_13 58:42

Listen, that has been hard. I mean, not just Mark, but like the whole team. And I'm sitting there going, what is happening here? I need captions when we're in these meetings. And so there's times, you know, when we have, you know how Slack has the well, I don't know if you know about Slack, but you can record, not record, but you can get notes from meetings and if you have a huddle and all that kind of stuff. And so it's lovely because then I can actually see what they said. And I'm like, oh, that's what he said.

SPEAKER_05 59:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 59:14

No, but I I do believe that this video captions are very, very, very important. Not only for folks that need them, right? Because there is the accessibility issue where there is that sort of support and there's that aspect of it, but also because of, and I'm gonna say this word again, the the multimodal of our experiences nowadays, where we are at times in a car, we're we're at times surrounded by people and we may not have headphones. There's times when we are multitasking on the computer, and it's just easier to look at the words to see what they're saying.

SPEAKER_05 59:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 59:54

Because I find also that media nowadays, there's media that you consume to feel something, to have an experience, whether it's entertained or to laugh, um, you know, to feel sad or to feel inspired, like movies and you know, things like that, and and even podcast episodes, right? That I sometimes do just to unwind. That I there's no they're not telling me a story, they're making me feel something. And then there's a lot of media that we consume to learn things. Yes. And I find that the ones that we're learning and educating for, I only need what you're saying. I don't need how you're saying it. And so sometimes I just need to know the facts, yes, not the tone.

James Cridland 1:00:40

There are a bunch of a bunch of industry podcasts that I listen to by reading the transcript in other podcasts, I'll be honest. Because because I just want to know, are they saying anything that I should be paying attention to? Uh, or is it talking uh or is it all talking about beef milkshakes? No shame. Yes. Um, so so yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely.

Awards

James Cridland 1:01:02

Um uh let's take a look at some awards and events, shall we?

SPEAKER_13 1:01:06

Absolutely. So now, awards and events and the Scottish podcast awards that took place last week.

James Cridland 1:01:14

Yes, yes. The Scots doing their usual thing of uh booing the English people. Oh, it was the best international podcast. I think it was allowed. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_13 1:01:24

I couldn't understand that. I saw that you wrote that and I thought, like, why? Yeah. And so thanks for the context.

James Cridland 1:01:30

Yes, yes. None of that may uh yes, it's it's a strange old thing. Uh I mean it must be difficult for people in Scotland right now because they're not in the World Cup anymore. And I I I do understand that, and the English still are. Um but uh anyway, sorry sorry, Danny, if you're listening. Um but uh you can see all of the winners of the Scottish Podcast Awards on the Pod News website. Uh also the British Audio Awards, also known as the Speakees, have added a number of podcast categories as well uh to that. You've got uh another week to enter that. And the International Women's Podcast Awards open for submissions. Uh tickets just $50 each. Um there's a new owner for that, Tink Media, our friends at uh Tink Media, Lauren and uh all of the other folk over there. Uh and the awards are going to be held in Toronto in Canada, which is all gonna be very exciting, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is super cool. I think you've got this month to enter. Um so uh this show is no good, but uh but if you do know um uh if you do know of uh stuff that should be in, then you should tell them to enter. That's a really good thing.

SPEAKER_13 1:02:39

Yeah, I love it. And then we

Events

SPEAKER_13 1:02:42

have IRL events. Yes. And uh podcast movement, New York City is getting closer. Yes, it's in early September.

James Cridland 1:02:51

It is indeed. You can buy tickets right now. Um, Elsie, are you gonna be going this year?

SPEAKER_12 1:02:56

I don't know. I don't know as of yet. Yes. We will see.

James Cridland 1:03:01

Yes, yes. It's uh I have um I have booked a fearsomely expensive hotel um uh for for the it doesn't look like a fearsomely expensive hotel, it's just it's in New York. Um so um, but I am looking forward to uh going uh to that. Um uh the venue, uh the podcast movement venue is very close to where they filmed the daily show. Um so I'm I'm I'm seeing if I can uh maybe slope off one night, watch the daily show getting recorded. That would be fun, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_13 1:03:34

That would be so fun.

James Cridland 1:03:36

Yeah. Um and and also uh also around the corner is um the uh what's it called, uh Last Week Tonight uh with John Oliver. That's also recorded up there as well. So um yeah, because the big CBS um studios are in that part of uh of uh town as well. Um if you want to vote for speakers, uh then you can do that. Not not, you know, um telling anybody who's listening to this podcast anything, but uh I I have put my name forward um as a speaking thing all about the history of podcasting, because I think the podcasting started in 1946. Oh my god. Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 1:04:12

Um you are going way back, way back, James.

James Cridland 1:04:17

So um you can go and uh take a look at that. You can also uh they'll also be publishing details of their committee in the next couple of days as well, because half of the speakers are chosen by committee, and half of the speakers are chosen um by you um when you go and vote uh for them. So uh that is

The Tech Stuff

James Cridland 1:04:34

a cool thing.

Announcer 1:04:34

The tech stuff on the pod news weekly review.

James Cridland 1:04:39

Yes, it's the stuff you'll find every Monday in the Pod News newsletter, and here's where Elsie talks technology uh this time around.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:45

All right, so so you wrote a piece this week about HLS video?

James Cridland 1:04:51

I did. HLS video, yes. Um, because actually I was trying to work out whether HLS video is better for consumption stats. Because one of the benefits of HLS video um that we that we're told is that um it only downloads the bits of the video that you consume. So can we therefore work out whether somebody has skipped ads if they're consuming a podcast through HLS? Because of course you consume both audio and video through HLS. So can we tell whether people are skipping the ads? Can we tell whether people have actually played the thing in the first place? All of that. So I went to have a quick look and the answer is yes and no. Uh uh, or if I can quote from Ariel, well, it depends. Uh so um, yeah, so there's lots of uh detail on that on the pod news website this uh week. When you're talking to um captivate um uh customers about HLS video, is is the exciting thing HLS to them or is the exciting thing video?

SPEAKER_13 1:05:52

Well, you know, it's very complicated because they just want to talk video, but they don't understand video at As it per as as HLS. And so the technology is the different part. They need, I feel, they need to understand the difference. So maybe not, it's not necessarily about the jargon, but it's about the way in which things are consumed. And that is the part that is a there's a mismatch and a misunderstanding about what that is and where people are consuming and how they're consuming it and what it means.

James Cridland 1:06:26

Right. And we and we never talk about HLS for YouTube. You YouTube uses HLS video, but it does. And we never talk about HLS for Netflix. So it all it but I guess we need to make the distinction between the old way of doing video and the new way of doing video in Apple Podcasts. And I I I guess that that's that's the thinking there. But even Apple are doing it, which I think is very un-Apple y. Although if the if the Apple PR person is listening, please do not pull off my arms and legs.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:53

Yeah.

James Cridland 1:06:54

Um speaking about podcast apps, uh, Pocket Casts is looking a little bit smarter, isn't it?

SPEAKER_13 1:06:59

Yes, and they have liquid go they have a liquid glass visual update for iOS users.

James Cridland 1:07:06

What's the podcast app that you use the most?

SPEAKER_13 1:07:10

Oh, currently Overcast. I'm uh a little bit of a diehard Overcast user, and also a new app that I really want to use. Really, really, really, really, really. And they are um one person, one developer. It's called Here Here. The podcast app. Here, H E A R H E R E. I think. I don't know which here starts. I can't remember. But it has, I know I'm like, huh, it's got some very interesting design going on with it. That's really cool. I love the way that they do the show notes, it's very neat. They've got some really like high-touch design things that they put in there that I'm just astounded by. Love, love, love, love it.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:58

Right.

SPEAKER_13 1:07:58

Um, the reason that I'm saying that I haven't used it more is just because my usage is enormous. And when I pulled in my my what is it called? The OPML for you. Yes. When I pulled in the OPML, it like it literally crashes it all the time. Because I have I'm indexing every time it opens up, it's like it's it's doing so much in the background.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_13 1:08:26

So it it hasn't quite been able to break through some things, but the search is amazing, although that's one of the issues. The search is great, like the way that it pops things up, it's so cool. But every time I find the podcast I want, I tap it and it and it crashes. So that sucks. So I haven't been able to actually listen, but I'm I'm hopeful and I'm here to be patient with the developer because it's one person.

James Cridland 1:08:56

Wow. Yes. Well, if you're looking for it, um, here here is its name. It's all one word, H-E-A-R-H-E-R-E. Uh and uh if you're lucky, you can find the Reddit post where you can join it on test flights to um play with it. I I'm I'm on test flights. Yeah, so uh that looks very cool. Podcasting 2.0 support, all of that, uh, which is uh very nice. Uh also in Pocket Casts, uh transcripts generated by Pocketcasts now highlight each sentence as it plays, which is very nice, which is quite similar to the way that uh Apple Podcasts does it. And I did notice when I was listening to this show through um our nice Buzzsprout uh website, weekly.podnews.net, that uh Buzzsprout now does word-by-word highlighting, um, which is uh very, very fancy as well. So hurrah

The inbox

James Cridland 1:09:41

for them.

Announcer 1:09:41

Boostergram, boostergram, boostigram, super comments, zaps, fan mail, fan mail, and voicemail. Our favorite time of the week, it's the Pod News Weekly Review inbox.

James Cridland 1:09:54

Yes, so many different ways to get in touch with us. Fan mail by using the link in our show notes, boosts, or emails. We share um uh the money that we uh make uh with uh Sam and I, sorry, Elsie. Uh I always feel bad reading that.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:06

Um my god, cannot believe it.

James Cridland 1:10:10

In the last seven days, in case you are wondering, uh 5,561 sats, which is something. Um thank you. Half of that was uh streaming, half of that wasn't. Uh so uh thank you uh so much for that. We've we we've got some audio fan mail, uh Elsie. Um yes, and uh David John Clark, the actor, is just about to call us gentlemen. So again, sorry about that. But anyway, uh here's the here's the fan mail that we've got.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:36

Hey James, hey Sam. It's David John Clark, the actor, aka the Late Bloomeractor podcast out of Adelaide, South Australia, dropping you a voice recording as you seemed so lonely that you weren't getting any. Uh I didn't really have anything to say, but I do have a quick question for you, James. Is um, with all your travel, have you ever used an app to record your flights? I use an app called um My Flights, uh, which is quite interesting and lets you know how much you've travelled and um heap of stats. I'd be really curious to know what yours are, because you are a man of the world. Uh gentlemen, thank you very much. Love your work. Uh as I said, nothing really great to say, but um wanted to drop a line and say hello, keep up the great work, and um I will talk to you, sir, with something more important next week, perhaps. Cheers, Light Bloomer actor, signing out from Adelaide, South Australia.

James Cridland 1:11:22

There you go. Did you need any uh any subtitles for that?

SPEAKER_12 1:11:26

So that's what I was thinking. Uh right at the name there. I lost it. At first, I was right there until that last little bit.

James Cridland 1:11:33

David John Clark, thank you so much. Uh that's very kind of you. Um, I I do use some of these apps, yes. Uh, Tripit is the one that I would probably recommend. Uh you can just forward your uh email um uh flight bookings and your hotels and everything else to Tripit and it will keep it. And I think that's free, but I also use an app called Flighty, which is very expensive. Yes.

SPEAKER_13 1:11:54

Um I do like Flighty, but Flighty you can also get for free. It just doesn't have all of the bells and whistles.

James Cridland 1:12:01

Ah, right, right, yes. So uh yeah, it's uh um and that saved me a couple of times when I was flying. In fact, when I was flying to um to Podfest earlier on in the year, um and uh and there was a fire alarm that went off in the airport, in sunny Brisbane Airport. So very, very Australian. So the fire alarm goes off, right? We have to get out of the airport, so all of us have to go through security again and everything else. And the way out of the airport, there's this sort of emergency exit. And the emergency exit, the first thing that you see outside is a big sign saying, caution, snake scene in this area. Stop. Very Australian.

SPEAKER_13 1:12:42

Oh my god.

James Cridland 1:12:43

And we were standing there for half an hour waiting for the fireman to tell us that there wasn't a fire after all, um, uh worrying about the snakes. So uh yeah, so there's a thing. Uh David John Clark, thank you. One of our um power supporters, also Neil Vellio, has dropped us a couple of messages. Um, one of them talking about the RSS ownership thing. Um, there was um uh a thing that we covered last week about um uh making sure that you know who owns your RSS feed, if you are working with a podcast network or that sort of thing. Um and uh Neil says, I've had clients come to me when their feeds have been hijacked by an icky agency. We have it written into our agreements. He works for PodNose Podcasting, of course, that they own the feed no matter what, even if we're forced to terminate. That's the right thing to do. Hurrah. And um Seth Goldstein also writing, I'm not surprised that some podcast production houses and hosts hold RSS feeds hostage. It happens in the web design world too. Oh yeah, yes, I hadn't hadn't considered that. He says, always read the contracts you sign diligently. Uh Seth, um, thank you for that. And I hope all is good um with you as well. And a slapped wrist for Neil Vellio. He says, Could you please actually add the voicemail link to the show notes? So I don't have to keep trawling about uh Neil, it's the first thing in the show notes. It's the first thing there. Um so uh yes, um uh if it's not clickable in your podcast app, get a better podcast app.

SPEAKER_12 1:14:10

Uh oh my God.

James Cridland 1:14:14

So uh I mean you're not wrong. This is one of the things, this is one of the excellent things that Buzzsprout does that captivate doesn't, which is voicemail. And super good it is too. Uh if I had my way with Kieran, I would be telling him to uh do that. No, I wouldn't because uh obviously Buzzsprout is very excellent. Um thank you as well to our power supporters. You can join them at weekly.podnews.net. People like James Preston White, Dan Kendall, Silas Vogt, and Rocky Thomas, the excellent Rocky Thomas from Soundstack. Um uh you could be at number 25 if you liked, weekly.podnews.net.

Elsie and James's week

James Cridland 1:14:48

So what else has happened for you this week, Elsie, apart from um uh apart from the wide world of of podcasting? Have you been doing anything exciting?

SPEAKER_13 1:14:56

Oh my gosh, no, not really. Oh no. Can I share?

James Cridland 1:15:00

Uh I mean, uh yes, if you like. You're asking me, I guess that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_13 1:15:05

Well, I'm like, this isn't necessarily like a I guess it's a positive and negative thing. So my husband comes in and he says, You are going to be taking swing dancing lessons with your kids.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:19

Oh.

SPEAKER_13 1:15:20

So there was no choice in the matter, not him. He's not doing this. Oh, he's not doing it.

James Cridland 1:15:26

Oh, so he's just he's just volunteered you, has he? Okay.

SPEAKER_13 1:15:29

Yes, he volunteered me, and um so now we are doing that uh Thursday nights, which is one of the reasons why I could not record on Thursday night with you. Right. And uh because we uh have to go into town to take swing dancing lessons, and um, so it's my children, yes, uh 14, 17, and then me, and then about three couples that are all probably over 70. And the teacher is also the teachers are also around seven years old. So it's quite an interesting experience.

James Cridland 1:16:08

So if you're wondering what swing dance is, it's a category of social dances that developed with the swing style of jazz music in the 1920s to the 1940s. I'm reading this from Wikipedia, and it must be true because it's telling me that some of the swing dances that have survived uh beyond the 1920s, which you will be doing, includes the the the Charleston, I've heard of that, the Balboa, yes, I've heard of that, the Lindy Hop, yes, the West Coast Swing, yes, I've heard of that too, and also, and this is according to Wikipedia, the collegiate shag. What is that? Who knows? Who knows? Yeah, but you're you're gonna be doing it, apparently.

SPEAKER_13 1:16:48

So apparently, yes, because that's what we and yes.

James Cridland 1:16:53

Yeah, well, so well, yeah, there's a thing. You wouldn't you wouldn't catch me dancing. I don't I don't do any of that stuff. Pilates is is enough for me, let alone anything else.

SPEAKER_13 1:17:05

So uh well, yeah, so that's uh that's a thing too. And uh so you know what you do for your kids, because we're all like, okay.

James Cridland 1:17:17

Yes, go.

SPEAKER_13 1:17:18

All right, so James, what what has happened for you this week?

James Cridland 1:17:23

Very, very little has happened for me this week. Uh and I'll tell you why, because my wife and my daughter are away in Europe. Oh um, they are on a cruise ship um for a week and a half, going down the Danube, um, and they've gone through Germany and they've gone through Austria, and they are in somewhere else now. Um I should really know I should I should really know my European uh geography better. Um they're going to uh Hungary, so um, uh, because that's where the Danube goes. They're going to Budapest. Um and um and they're doing that with my mother-in-law. Um, and the reason why I'm not there, uh Elsie is that it's um uh as I say, one and a half weeks on a boat with my mother-in-law. Yes, this is true. So uh but we all agree that I would stay home and look after the dog. So it's been very, very quiet in this house. Um so it's been um, yes, it's been a bit weird. And I I I tell you the one thing that you uh because I do all of the cooking in this in this household, right? Um, and I have done absolutely no cooking for myself over the last week.

SPEAKER_13 1:18:31

Oh, really?

James Cridland 1:18:32

Yeah, yeah. Because for me, it's just been oh great, I don't I don't have to cook, I'll just go out and get the ready meals and and away we go. And so I've I've not done any cooking, and I'm I I'm yeah, that's that that's not been a great experience.

SPEAKER_13 1:18:45

That is very, but you know what? To Europe, it it's very hard to cook for one person. Yes, I've I've had to because I know that there's been times when I finally thinking, because I I do all the cooking here, and I'm thinking, okay, everybody's gone. I'll get to do something for me. And it's like, what do I buy? Do I buy uh how much do I buy?

James Cridland 1:19:09

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_13 1:19:11

And then you have to the recipe you have to make, it's just a lot. It's a lot.

James Cridland 1:19:14

Yes, although, you know, I mean, most of the time I'm cooking for three, and all of the recipes are either for two or for four. So yes, I'm yes, this is true. Yeah, so I'm kind of used to a little bit of that. Anyway, um uh it's been excellent uh having you on. Elsie, thank you so much for your time. Much uh much appreciated. Um and uh hopefully uh see you maybe in New York for podcast movement. If not, um maybe Podfest early next year, perhaps.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:41

Yeah, absolutely.

James Cridland 1:19:42

Uh depending on whether I'm going there uh as well. Um and that's it for this week. All of our podcast stories, of course, taken from the pod news newsletter at podnews.net.

SPEAKER_13 1:19:50

And you can support the show by streaming Sats. You can give us feedback using the BuzzSprout fan mail link in our show notes. You can send us a boost or become a power supporter like the 24 power supporters at weekly.podnews.net.

James Cridland 1:20:07

Yes, our music is from TM Studios, our voiceover Sheila D. Our audio is recorded using CleanFeed. We edit with Hindenburg, and we're hosted and sponsored by BuzzSprout. Start podcasting, keep podcasting.

Announcer 1:20:19

Get updated every day. Subscribe to our newsletter at podnews.net. Tell your friends and grow the show. Support us and support us. The pod news weekly review will return next week. Keep listening.